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From Chris Douglas <cdoug...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Spin out MR, HDFS and YARN as their own TLPs and disband Hadoop umbrella project
Date Fri, 31 Aug 2012 01:24:01 GMT
+1 for splitting the projects
+1 for adding all MR contributors to Yarn

I may have missed its mention in this thread, but maintaining the 1.x
branch is probably the most awkward technical hurdle. I'm not sure how
that should be managed if the projects are split. In one strategy, it
can be left with Common+HDFS until 2.x stabilizes.

The tasks that are simpler in a unified project- releases,
cross-project patches, etc- are relatively rare, but all dev has paid
a tax. That acknowledged, as Arun points out: the half-measures that
have made the split painful can be fixed and enthusiasm/resources
appear to be available for that. As long as TLPs are reconciled
quickly and decisively, this can be successful. Without dedicated
resources, we can expect the same result as before.

As for what this accomplishes: each subproject is more approachable on
its own. I don't think it will alleviate political tensions, neither
are such tensions inherently unhealthy. But a split can limit the
scope to the particular subproject and its interests. It's also easier
for collaborators to engage the subset of contributors charged with
its roadmap: Pig/Hive should be able to wrangle MapReduce and Yarn
folks on their dev list, as HBase should engage HDFS without importing
extra context.

As another practical matter: we should change the bylaws so emeritus
PMC members/committers can reinstate themselves without a vote. I
expect many people, including myself, would have no problem signaling
periods of inactivity if project politics were out of the equation. -C

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
<chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> [decided to minimize traffic and to simply put this in one thread]
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> See the recent discussion on these threads:
>
> YARN as its own Hadoop "sub project": http://s.apache.org/WW1
> Maintain a single committer list for the Hadoop project: http://s.apache.org/Owx
>
> ...and just pay attention to the Hadoop project over the last 3-4 years. It's operating
> as a single project, that's masking separate communities that themselves are really
> separate ASF projects.
>
> At the ASF, this has been a problem area called "umbrella" projects and over the years,
> all I've seen from them is wasted bandwidth, artificial barriers and the inventions of
> new ways to perform process mongering and to reduce the fun in developing software
> at this fantastic foundation.
>
> I've talked about umbrella projects enough. We've diverted conversation enough.
> Enough people have tried to act like there is some technical mumbo jumbo that is
> preventing the eventual act of higher power that I myself hope comes should these
> discussions prove unfruitful through normal means.
>
> *these. are. separate. projects.*
> *there.are.not.blocker.issues.from.spinning.out.these.projects.as.their.own.communities*
>
> In this email: http://s.apache.org/rSm
>
> And in the 2 subsequent follow ons in that thread, I've outlined a process that I'll
copy
> through below for splitting these projects into their own TLPs:
>
> -----snip
> Process:
>
> 0. [DISCUSS] thread for <TLP name> in which you talk about #1 and #2 below, potentially
draft resolution too.
>
> 1. Decide on an initial set of *PMC* members. I urge each new TLP to adopt PMC==C. See
reasons I've
> already discussed.
>
> 2. Decide on a chair. Try not to VOTE for this explicitly, see if can be discussed and
consensus
> can be reached (just a thought experiment). VOTE if necessary.
>
> 3. [VOTE] thread for <TLP name>
>
> 4. Create Project:
>   a. paste resolution from #0 to board@ or;
>   b. go to general@incubator and start new Incubator project.
>
> 5. infrastructure set up.
>    MLs moving; new UNIX groups; website setup;
>    SVN setup like this:
>
> svn copy -m "MR TLP." https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/hadoop/ https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/<insert
cool MR name>; or
> svn copy -m "YARN TLP." https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/hadoop/ https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/<insert
cool YARN name>; or
> svn copy -m "HDFS TLP." https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/hadoop/ https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/<insert
cool HDFS name>
>
> After all 3 have been created run:
>
> svn remove -m "Remove Hadoop umbrella TLP. Split into separate projects." https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/hadoop
>
> 6. (TLPs if 4a; Incubator podling if 4b;) proceed, collaborate, operate as distinct communities,
and try to solve the code duplication/dependency
> issues from there.
>
> 7. If 4b; then graduate as TLP from Incubator.
>
> -----snip
>
> So that's my proposal.
>
> Thanks guys.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>

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