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From Andrew Purtell <apurt...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Spin out MR, HDFS and YARN as their own TLPs and disband Hadoop umbrella project
Date Fri, 31 Aug 2012 07:55:21 GMT
The end user community might disappear, and you are ok with this? I'm
simply astonished. Who are these people showing up to help, document, be on
lists, whatever, if not current or prospective end users? Who the hell
shows up to write unit tests? Who is this "public" in public good? Looks to
me like a small cabal of commercial concerns in this case.

I guess the only thing we are going to agree on is that confidence in
Apache Hadoop project stewardship at the ASF isn't currently warranted. And
here I thought things were going so well. Who knew this torpedo lurked
beneath the waters. I guess just members of the cabal. There's nothing more
for me to say, just maybe a few hard decisions to make, depending how this
turns out.

On Friday, August 31, 2012, Mattmann, Chris A (388J) wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
> On Aug 30, 2012, at 11:42 PM, Andrew Purtell wrote:
> > If Apache Hadoop -- as an umbrella or sum of its parts -- isn't practical
> > to develop end applications or downstream projects on, the community will
> > disappear.
> Sure, the end-user community might disappear, but the point I'm trying to
> make is
> that the community is more than that. It's developers that build code
> together
> ("community over code"); it's folks who write documentation who are part
> of the
> project's committee of folks working together to develop software for the
> public
> good at this Foundation. It's folks who write unit tests as part of that.
>  It's also people
> that fly by on the lists and that need help; or that may throw up a patch,
> or
> whatever. It's other members of the Apache Software Foundation that are
> charged with caring and giving a rip about the Foundation's projects.
> It's also downstream users of the software too -- they just aren't the
> only folks who
> are the community, that's all.
> > I don't follow your logic. I deal with the technical realities
> > of actually trying to use an Apache Hadoop distribution, the pieces
> > released as source from the ASF, directly in production, and your
> position
> > is dismissive if not hostile to my concerns as an end user.
> Sorry I wasn't trying to be dismissive. But at the same time I want to
> suggest that
> the community is broader than simply the technical folks who use the
> project.
> > What
> > "community" do you mean then? Vendors? Academics? People who like to
> tinker
> > with things they can't actually use?
> Yeah the community I'm talking about is the larger whole that makes up
> the community of the project.
> >
> > And you can't just hand waive that this will all work out if done RIGHT
> > NOW, especially with something as inelegant as a SVN copy.
> Well the project's health is something that ought to be fixed, and it ought
> to be done under a timeline. *right now* isn't probably going to be a
> reality.
> But I am doing my job as a member of the Foundation in helping to discuss,
> further root out, and educate the folks around here as to the way that
> projects
> work at the Foundation.
> Cheers,
> Chris
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov <javascript:;>
> WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Best regards,

   - Andy

Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. - Piet Hein
(via Tom White)

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