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From Jun Ping Du <...@vmware.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Spin out MR, HDFS and YARN as their own TLPs and disband Hadoop umbrella project
Date Wed, 29 Aug 2012 18:35:58 GMT
Hi Chris and all,
   Thanks for initiating the discussion. Can I say something in a prospective of contributor
but not a committer or PMC member?
   First, I have a feeling that current hadoop project process is good for contributors to
deliver a bug fix but not so easy to deliver a big feature. I have great experience in bug
fixing work that can get quickly response from committers and checked in. However, I feel
a little frustrated in delivering a feature (~5K LOC, very important for hadoop running well
on virtualization infrastructure) across common, hdfs, map reduce and yarn. Firstly, you have
to figure out different committers you should turn for help on each component, then convince
them your ideas and work with them in reviewing and committing the code. Each committers should
understand the completed story and learn the code pending on review as well as that already
checked in. If some committers are super busy, then the feature looks like pending forever.
Thus, due to my current experience, I may have to say this process is not so friendly to contributors
who come from different organizations with different backgrounds but have the same wish to
contribute more to Apache hadoop.
   Based on this, for spinning out hadoop sub-project to TLPs, I would glad to see we will
have concisely committer list for each projects then committers can be more focus (more bandwidth
may be?) and contributors can know who they should turn to get quick response and help there.
On the other hand, I would concern it may take more complexity to dependencies for features
that across sub-project today as you should figure out branches for each TLP but it is hard
to estimate when code can come alive in each branch of TLP (may take the similar complexity
to committers as well).
   I don't have many good suggestions but would be glad to see the process can be more smoothly
for contributor's work no matter what decision we are making today. Just 2 cents.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris A Mattmann (388J)" <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov>
To: general@hadoop.apache.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 7:33:58 PM
Subject: [DISCUSS] Spin out MR, HDFS and YARN as their own TLPs and disband Hadoop umbrella

[decided to minimize traffic and to simply put this in one thread]

Hi Guys,

See the recent discussion on these threads:

YARN as its own Hadoop "sub project": http://s.apache.org/WW1
Maintain a single committer list for the Hadoop project: http://s.apache.org/Owx

...and just pay attention to the Hadoop project over the last 3-4 years. It's operating
as a single project, that's masking separate communities that themselves are really
separate ASF projects. 

At the ASF, this has been a problem area called "umbrella" projects and over the years, 
all I've seen from them is wasted bandwidth, artificial barriers and the inventions of 
new ways to perform process mongering and to reduce the fun in developing software
at this fantastic foundation.

I've talked about umbrella projects enough. We've diverted conversation enough.
Enough people have tried to act like there is some technical mumbo jumbo that is
preventing the eventual act of higher power that I myself hope comes should these
discussions prove unfruitful through normal means. 

*these. are. separate. projects.*

In this email: http://s.apache.org/rSm

And in the 2 subsequent follow ons in that thread, I've outlined a process that I'll copy
through below for splitting these projects into their own TLPs:


0. [DISCUSS] thread for <TLP name> in which you talk about #1 and #2 below, potentially
draft resolution too.

1. Decide on an initial set of *PMC* members. I urge each new TLP to adopt PMC==C. See reasons
already discussed.

2. Decide on a chair. Try not to VOTE for this explicitly, see if can be discussed and consensus

can be reached (just a thought experiment). VOTE if necessary.

3. [VOTE] thread for <TLP name>

4. Create Project:
  a. paste resolution from #0 to board@ or;
  b. go to general@incubator and start new Incubator project.

5. infrastructure set up.
   MLs moving; new UNIX groups; website setup; 
   SVN setup like this:

svn copy -m "MR TLP." https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/hadoop/ https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/<insert
cool MR name>; or 
svn copy -m "YARN TLP." https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/hadoop/ https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/<insert
cool YARN name>; or
svn copy -m "HDFS TLP." https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/hadoop/ https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/<insert
cool HDFS name>

After all 3 have been created run:

svn remove -m "Remove Hadoop umbrella TLP. Split into separate projects." https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/hadoop

6. (TLPs if 4a; Incubator podling if 4b;) proceed, collaborate, operate as distinct communities,
and try to solve the code duplication/dependency
issues from there.

7. If 4b; then graduate as TLP from Incubator.


So that's my proposal. 

Thanks guys.


Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA

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