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Subject: Re: Wiki migration and clean-up
To: common-dev@hadoop.apache.org
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From: Ray Chiang <rchiang@apache.org>
Message-ID: <5a0ed406-6a8b-4c24-6f9e-d6f86e08ea11@apache.org>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 11:27:36 -0700
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archived-at: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:27:39 -0000

Good point Allen.

I expect that moving everything to the new wiki will take a while.  Once 
that's done, the code can be changed.  Just doing a quick grep, I see a 
total of 12 places to change to point to the new Wiki (there may be 
more).  For existing installs, we can either keep a small subset of the 
old pages or add redirects/pointers from the old wiki to the new location.

-Ray


On 7/28/16 11:07 AM, Allen Wittenauer wrote:
> 	I hope you folks are aware that this is much more intensive than just moving a bunch of documents.  Lots of wiki pages are referenced in the source code, including in user-facing error messages.
>
>
>> On Jul 28, 2016, at 10:47 AM, Ray Chiang <rchiang@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Martin.  I did ask on INFRA-12342, and it looks like Confluence Wiki is the recommended "latest and greatest".
>>
>> Here's my proposal as it currently stands:
>>
>> 1) Move to Confluence Wiki.
>>
>> 2) Move all the Industry/meetup to a single page with a small set of external links.  This will be mostly of the form, "if you want to know more you can get started with...".
>>
>> 3) Have one other page for users just getting started.  The updated IRC information, mailing lists, and the fact that JIRA isn't for user support will go here.
>>
>> 4) Keep and reorganize the more detailed technical information (developers, advanced users, and admins) on the Wiki.  For this, I have no doubt I'll be copying large chunks of the old Wiki, but likely updating any pre-branch-2 information.
>>
>> 5) Once everything is moved, organized, and gets enough +1's from the community, update the pointers to the new Wiki and obsolete the old one.
>>
>> Any further discussion is still welcome.
>>
>> -Ray
>>
>>
>> On 7/27/16 12:08 PM, Martin Rosse wrote:
>>> Hi Ray,
>>>
>>> The migration is much needed, and thanks for initiating it.
>>>
>>> Regarding approaches to cleaning up the Wiki content--my 2 cents is in
>>> favor an approach similar to the Spark cwiki:
>>>
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SPARK/Wiki+Homepage
>>>
>>> My take is that the Hadoop product docs on hadoop.apache.org generally
>>> target (or should target) the audiences you describe in 1-4, while the Wiki
>>> is (should be) primarily for audience #5 or "Hadoop staff"--internal Hadoop
>>> development, product management, QA, etc.
>>>
>>> Definitely current Wiki content such as "Overview of Hadoop" and the link
>>> to "Single Node Hadoop Cluster" installation is redundant, unnecessary doc
>>> maintenance, and annoying to come across as a user because you have to
>>> assess its value relative to the same/similar content in the product doc on
>>> hadoop.apache.org.
>>>
>>> BTW, I did some random testing of ASF project wikis hosted on
>>> cwiki.apache.org, and the pages for those sites definitely load much, much
>>> faster than ASF wiki pages using MoinMoin. Clearly no surprise.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Ray Chiang <rchiang@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good to know.  It's certainly easier to set up an alternate location in
>>>> any case and then do a wholesale migration.  It saves from having that
>>>> "under construction" look before it's complete.
>>>>
>>>> I'll get on the appropriate infra@ list and ask about recommendations.
>>>>
>>>> -Ray
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/26/16 10:49 PM, Andrew Wang wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Ray, if you're going to do a wiki cleanup, fair warning that I filed
>>>>> this INFRA JIRA about the wiki being terribly slow, and they closed it as
>>>>> WONTFIX:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12283
>>>>>
>>>>> So if you'd actually like to undertake a wiki cleanup, we should also
>>>>> consider migrating the content to a wiki that isn't terribly slow.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think cwiki.apache.org is better, but maybe we should ask infra what
>>>>> the
>>>>> preferred option is here. They might be able to help with a content
>>>>> migration too.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Ray Chiang <rchiang@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Coming in late to an old thread.
>>>>>> I was looking around at the Hadoop documentation (hadoop.apache.org and
>>>>>> wiki.apache.org/hadoop) and I'd sum up the current state of the
>>>>>> documentation as follows:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. hadoop.apache.org is pretty clearly full of technical information.
>>>>>> My only minor nit here is that the wiki pointer and the Git pointer
>>>>>>      at the top is really tiny.
>>>>>> 2. wiki.apache.org is simultaneously targeted to at least four audiences
>>>>>>       1. Industry Users (broadest sense of Big Data Industry)
>>>>>>       2. Industry Developers (mostly those adding a layer like Hive does
>>>>>>          to MapReduce)
>>>>>>       3. Hadoop Users (those who just want to set up a small cluster)
>>>>>>       4. Hadoop Developers (e.g. using MapReduce APIs)
>>>>>>       5. Hadoop Internal Developers (eventual contributors)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to initiate some cleanup of the wiki, but before I even start,
>>>>>> I'd like to see if anyone has constructive suggestions or other
>>>>>> approaches
>>>>>> that would make this transition smoother.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Some sections, like Industry Users and Industry Developers is
>>>>>>      growing so fast, I'm not sure whether it's worth maintaining in any
>>>>>>      meaningful format. I'd be inclined to make suggestions on where to
>>>>>>      start and let Google take them forward from there.
>>>>>> 2. Organize the developer section based on the pieces a new reader
>>>>>>      wants to learn (new to everything, new to Hadoop, all the tools for
>>>>>>      Hadoop development, "just check out code and go", etc).
>>>>>> 3. Organize the Users section a bit more.  The "Setting up a Hadoop
>>>>>>      Cluster" is grouped well, but I'd perhaps rearrange the ordering a
>>>>>> bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Ray
>>>>>>
>>
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