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From Larry McCay <lmc...@hortonworks.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Hadoop SSO/Token Server Components
Date Fri, 05 Jul 2013 19:24:10 GMT
Hi Andy -

> Happy Fourth of July to you and yours.

Same to you and yours. :-)
We had some fun in the sun for a change - we've had nothing but rain on the east coast lately.

> My concern here is there may have been a misinterpretation or lack of
> consensus on what is meant by "clean slate"


Apparently so.
On the pre-summit call, I stated that I was interested in reconciling the jiras so that we
had one to work from.

You recommended that we set them aside for the time being - with the understanding that work
would continue on your side (and our's as well) - and approach the community discussion from
a clean slate.
We seemed to do this at the summit session quite well.
It was my understanding that this community discussion would live beyond the summit and continue
on this list.

While closing the summit session we agreed to follow up on common-dev with first a summary
then a discussion of the moving parts.

I never expected the previous work to be abandoned and fully expected it to inform the discussion
that happened here.

If you would like to reframe what clean slate was supposed to mean or describe what it means
now - that would be welcome - before I waste anymore time trying to facilitate a community
discussion that is apparently not wanted.

> Nowhere in this
> picture are self appointed "master JIRAs" and such, which have been
> disappointing to see crop up, we should be collaboratively coding not
> planting flags.

I don't know what you mean by self-appointed master JIRAs.
It has certainly not been anyone's intention to disappoint.
Any mention of a new JIRA was just to have a clear context to gather the agreed upon points
- previous and/or existing JIRAs would easily be linked.

Planting flagsā€¦ I need to go back and read my discussion point about the JIRA and see how
this is the impression that was made.
That is not how I define success. The only flags that count is code. What we are lacking is
the roadmap on which to put the code.

> I read Kai's latest document as something approaching today's consensus (or
> at least a common point of view?) rather than a historical document.
> Perhaps he and it can be given equal share of the consideration.

I definitely read it as something that has evolved into something approaching what we have
been talking about so far. There has not however been enough discussion anywhere near the
level of detail in that document and more details are needed for each component in the design.

Why the work in that document should not be fed into the community discussion as anyone else's
would be - I fail to understand.

My suggestion continues to be that you should take that document and speak to the inventory
of moving parts as we agreed.
As these are agreed upon, we will ensure that the appropriate subtasks are filed against whatever
JIRA is to host them - don't really care much which it is.

I don't really want to continue with two separate JIRAs - as I stated long ago - but until
we understand what the pieces are and how they relate then they can't be consolidated.
Even if 9533 ended up being repurposed as the server instance of the work - it should be a
subtask of a larger one - if that is to be 9392, so be it.
We still need to define all the pieces of the larger picture before that can be done.

What I thought was the clean slate approach to the discussion seemed a very reasonable way
to make all this happen.
If you would like to restate what you intended by it or something else equally as reasonable
as a way to move forward that would be awesome.

I will be happy to work toward the roadmap with everyone once it is articulated, understood
and actionable.
In the meantime, I have work to do.

thanks,

--larry

BTW - I meant to quote you in an earlier response and ended up saying it was Aaron instead.
Not sure what happened there. :-) 

On Jul 4, 2013, at 2:40 PM, Andrew Purtell <apurtell@apache.org> wrote:

> Hi Larry (and all),
> 
> Happy Fourth of July to you and yours.
> 
> In our shop Kai and Tianyou are already doing the coding, so I'd defer to
> them on the detailed points.
> 
> My concern here is there may have been a misinterpretation or lack of
> consensus on what is meant by "clean slate". Hopefully that can be quickly
> cleared up. Certainly we did not mean ignore all that came before. The idea
> was to reset discussions to find common ground and new direction where we
> are working together, not in conflict, on an agreed upon set of design
> points and tasks. There's been a lot of good discussion and design
> preceeding that we should figure out how to port over. Nowhere in this
> picture are self appointed "master JIRAs" and such, which have been
> disappointing to see crop up, we should be collaboratively coding not
> planting flags.
> 
> I read Kai's latest document as something approaching today's consensus (or
> at least a common point of view?) rather than a historical document.
> Perhaps he and it can be given equal share of the consideration.
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, July 3, 2013, Larry McCay wrote:
> 
>> Hey Andrew -
>> 
>> I largely agree with that statement.
>> My intention was to let the differences be worked out within the
>> individual components once they were identified and subtasks created.
>> 
>> My reference to HSSO was really referring to a SSO *server* based design
>> which was not clearly articulated in the earlier documents.
>> We aren't trying to compare and contrast one design over another anymore.
>> 
>> Let's move this collaboration along as we've mapped out and the
>> differences in the details will reveal themselves and be addressed within
>> their components.
>> 
>> I've actually been looking forward to you weighing in on the actual
>> discussion points in this thread.
>> Could you do that?
>> 
>> At this point, I am most interested in your thoughts on a single jira to
>> represent all of this work and whether we should start discussing the SSO
>> Tokens.
>> If you think there are discussion points missing from that list, feel free
>> to add to it.
>> 
>> thanks,
>> 
>> --larry
>> 
>> On Jul 3, 2013, at 7:35 PM, Andrew Purtell <apurtell@apache.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Larry,
>>> 
>>> Of course I'll let Kai speak for himself. However, let me point out that,
>>> while the differences between the competing JIRAs have been reduced for
>>> sure, there were some key differences that didn't just disappear.
>>> Subsequent discussion will make that clear. I also disagree with your
>>> characterization that we have simply endorsed all of the design decisions
>>> of the so-called HSSO, this is taking a mile from an inch. We are here to
>>> engage in a collaborative process as peers. I've been encouraged by the
>>> spirit of the discussions up to this point and hope that can continue
>>> beyond one design summit.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Larry McCay <lmccay@hortonworks.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Kai -
>>>> 
>>>> I think that I need to clarify somethingā€¦
>>>> 
>>>> This is not an update for 9533 but a continuation of the discussions
>> that
>>>> are focused on a fresh look at a SSO for Hadoop.
>>>> We've agreed to leave our previous designs behind and therefore we
>> aren't
>>>> really seeing it as an HSSO layered on top of TAS approach or an HSSO vs
>>>> TAS discussion.
>>>> 
>>>> Your latest design revision actually makes it clear that you are now
>>>> targeting exactly what was described as HSSO - so comparing and
>> contrasting
>>>> is not going to add any value.
>>>> 
>>>> What we need you to do at this point, is to look at those high-level
>>>> components described on this thread and comment on whether we need
>>>> additional components or any that are listed that don't seem necessary
>> to
>>>> you and why.
>>>> In other words, we need to define and agree on the work that has to be
>>>> done.
>>>> 
>>>> We also need to determine those components that need to be done before
>>>> anything else can be started.
>>>> I happen to agree with Brian that #4 Hadoop SSO Tokens are central to
>> all
>>>> the other components and should probably be defined and POC'd in short
>>>> order.
>>>> 
>>>> Personally, I think that continuing the separation of 9533 and 9392 will
>>>> do this effort a disservice. There doesn't seem to be enough differences
>>>> between the two to justify separate jiras anymore. It may be best to
>> file a
>>>> new one that reflects a single vision without the extra cruft that has
>>>> built up in either of the existing ones. We would certainly reference
>> the
>>>> existing ones within the new one. This approach would align with the
>> spirit
>>>> of the discussions up to this point.
>>>> 
>>>> I am prepared to start a discussion around the shape of the two Hadoop
>> SSO
>>>> tokens: identity and access. If this is what others feel the next topic
>>>> should be.
>>>> If we can identify a jira home for it, we can do it there - otherwise we
>>>> can create another DISCUSS thread for it.
>>>> 
>>>> thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> --larry
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 3, 2013, at 2:39 PM, "Zheng, Kai" <kai.zheng@intel.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Larry,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for the update. Good to see that with this update we are now
>>>> aligned on most points.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have also updated our TokenAuth design in HADOOP-9392. The new
>>>> revision incorporates feedback and suggestions in related discussion
>> with
>>>> the community, particularly from Microsoft and others attending the
>>>> Security design lounge session at the Hadoop summit. Summary of the
>> changes:
>>>>> 1.    Revised the approach to now use two tokens, Identity Token plus
>>>> Access Token, particularly considering our authorization framework and
>>>> compatibility with HSSO;
>>>>> 2.    Introduced Authorization Server (AS) from our authorization
>>>> framework into the flow that issues access tokens for clients with
>> identity
>>>> tokens to access services;
>>>>> 3.    Refined proxy access token and the proxy/impersonation flow;
>>>>> 4.    Refined the browser web SSO flow regarding access to Hadoop web
>>>> services;
>>>>> 5.    Added Hadoop RPC access flow regard
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> 
>   - Andy
> 
> Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. - Piet Hein
> (via Tom White)


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