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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: [vote] turning off nagging until we feel gump is solid enough for that
Date Wed, 01 Dec 2004 19:49:33 GMT
Ceki Gülcü wrote:
> At 05:27 PM 12/1/2004, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>> If you have a better social algorithm that would stop you from feeling 
>> insulted, let us know what it is.
> It's not about me, log4j or velocity, but coming to the realization
> that 100% backward compatibility is not always possible. 

Absolutely agreed. I am a strong believer in dynamic equilibria and 
adaptation, not in stagnation as the way to obtain solidity.

> It seems that
> gump is based on the premise that an item can be removed in version n,
> if it has been deprecated on version k, where k < n. Although most
> reasonable, this policy cannot always be followed, for legitimate
> reasons.

Yes, this is the fulcrum of the whole discussion and I'm actually glad 
that this surfaced because it did make me think a lot.

Creating a social algorithm that allows the above will require a lot 
more work than I expected, but you are right: we cannot expect people to 
be good contract managers all the time [for whatever reason] (or even to 
understand what contract management is about).

> Don't understand me wrong, I very much appreciate Gump as a
> service. For example, log4j developers would like to be notified of
> changes in log4j CVS head that affect dependents. However, many
> dependents do not need to be aware of these changes, only log4j
> developers need to know about them. Before releasing the next version,
> we will publish a step-by-step migration document. Detecting that
> project V broke because of changes in project L, and then notifying
> only L, is a lot more complicated than what gump does currently.
> Surely that's asking too much out of Gump.

Not really, Leo and I spent several days designing proving that the 
algorithm for this is computationally tractable.

>> Our goal is not to insult people or to create trouble.
> Ditto here.



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