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From Dalibor Topic <>
Subject Re: [proposal] removing non-ASF leaves from the workspace
Date Mon, 01 Nov 2004 14:05:57 GMT
Niclas Hedhman <niclas <at>> writes:

> On Monday 01 November 2004 17:00, Leo Simons wrote:
> > Kaffe is very much a leaf not a dependency (I know no ASF project 
> > that can only be built using Kaffe), yet using it for experimental 
> > runs doubles the amount of cpu and disk space used.
> For the record, there are 8 attempts at starting a Gump build every day.
> 1 is Kaffe, 1 is JDK1.5, 1 is 'test' and the others are the official build.
> So, it is not completely accurate to say that the Kaffe build instance doubles 
> CPU/disk resources.

My long term (a few weeks, I hope) plan is to have a second gump instance on with the free runtimes to both take the extra load off
ASF, and to give further free runtimes like gcj, IKVM, JamVM, etc. a go at
building the free java software world from scratch.

> > While I appreciate the goal of being able to have a truly free java
> > stack and how using Kaffe to build ASF projects helps towards attaining
> > that goal, we're also doing "public service" towards the GNU people in
> > this way.
> Looking at the fact that a Kaffe developer (dalibor) has taken interest in 
> Gump, installed his own instance and trying hard to get things going, is IMHO 
> a good testament to the appreciation of Gump. 

I appreciate in particular the extremely helpful developers on #gump. Thanks a
lot for those that helped me set myself up. I still have to pay you back with
the wiki page, though ;)

Seriously though, I think gump is just wonderful, and is going to help leapfrog
the whole free runtimes thing quite a bit as a side effect.

Today, there is a lot of great free software written in Java, not least thanks
to ASF's successful projects. Unfortunately, there are often some small issues
that prevent some free Java softare from running on free runtimes. Gump can help
find and fix those small issues, as it did for GNU JAXP's small bug today for me.

The small issues may be bugs in the free runtimes, or code that is just a little
bit outside the letter of the specification, but runs fine on non-free runtimes.
In particular the latter case is hard to anticipate a priori in a class library
implementation. That's where having a gump can be very, very helpful: it shows
what idioms other developers expect to work.

Finally, I see great potential in maintaining a confidence level in a free java
stack, once we're there ;) That could help quite a bit wrt to packaging efforts
of free software written in Java for operating systems like GNU/Linux, *BSD, etc.

dalibor topic

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