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From "Adam R. B. Jack" <>
Subject Re: [RT] Was python a good idea?
Date Thu, 08 Jul 2004 18:40:52 GMT

> I have started to use python myself because I loved the much faster
> try/fail cycle of a scripting language and python looked a lot
> friendlier than other scripting languages.

Python is fun to get started with & has some really nice features. My guess
is I've not even come close to touching the nicer parts ('cos I've yet to
leave Java thinking far enough behind) and I kinda look forward to getting
there, some day.

> But in my experience, it doesn't scale in terms of complexity as much as
> java does.

Sure doesn't. Good practices (unit tests, getting good coverage, pychecker
and all) can help, but any line/character not touched is a potential
time-bomb. That said, those good practices are needed w/ any language, they
just take discipline. Basically, I've come to live w/ that realization &
stopped trying to take so many short cuts (despite knowing better). Maybe I
owe Python thanks for that. ;-)

I've found a bunch of stuff I can't do w/ Python, but then I've found
similar w/ Java. Python is clearly far less mature, but I doubt that will
last very long. Basically, I have a love/hate relationship w/ Python (I've
caused myself a lot of hours of pain), but I don't regret having tinkered
with it.

> Also, it seems that there is a lot of black magic in getting it to run
> very solidly, while java has years of polishing on seriously loaded
> environments.

That could easily be me. I chose to do some

> So, I wonder: what would you think about a gump in java?

Good idea? Maybe. Personally, I've invested so much in Python Gump to want
to back off (although 6 months ago I'd've been there in a heart beat).
Personally, I feel Gump is beautifully irrelevant -- if it dropped of the
face of the planet  few people would notice -- but when it find issues &
helps out, it is a sweet thing. For me it is a beautify folly; so what
better than to experiment with, to teach some Java folks a new tool, to
learn Python & get a new perspective on the world?

BTW: Won't Java (with JDK 1.5 feature) + Groovy and Python be about the same
thing sooner or later, anyway? ;-) The similarities will outweigh the
differences. ;-)

Basically, I think Python Gump was the right thing to do 'cos it breathed
life into a somewhat mundane/infrastructural task. I do think it has become
a barrier to entry for many, which I find disturbing. As such, I'd not fight
against folks wanting to re-write in Java ('cos that is clearly quite



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