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From "Adam Jack" <>
Subject RE: gump + centipede + cc
Date Fri, 16 May 2003 13:53:44 GMT
I didn't follow all that (although I've tried) so I've <snipped> it and will
state my thoughts.

Software fails when it looses focus of it's sweet spot. I think we need to
identify and recognize those sweet spots to avoid overlapping and/or loosing

Gump has (IMHO) historically succeeded because of it position as the
coordinator amongst disparate projects. It uses the GOM (something I think
is invaluable) to identify the "interaction points" (jars, etc.) between
projects. I think Gump is "open" because it allows extension (primarily with
ant) and doesn't get involved in the internal details of the build, only the

Ant has (IMHO) historically succeeded because it is the "universal extension
point glue" it allows disparate things (of whatever granularity, in whatever
forked language) to communicate (through FileSets, properties, etc.) Like it
or not, dependency builder or not, Ant is the new scripting language.

Centipede has (IMHO) a sweet spot of being the "coordinator amongst
'scriptlets' -- or powerfully re-usable chunks of ant scripts". Ant is a
thing of beauty in how powerful it is, but it is a pain in the butt as to
how low level it is, and how much thinking/typing/testing/debugging needs to
be done each time. Centipede provides higher level building blocks, to
channel some of that power without limiting it, and remaining open.
Centipede is open because you can insert any ant tasks you like. Centipede
is Ant++ in that regard, less is more.

Part of me say, it is more what these things don't do, as opposed to do,
that makes them open...

I would hate to see Gump try to become a script language and run all sorts
of things, I think that is the purview of ant or (for basically standard
higher-level builds Maven or Centipede, or for standard plus ant extensions
Centipede). I think Gump would fail because it lacks the "glue" (properties,
FileSets, etc.) to allow these things to communicate.

So, long story short --- although I don't really know what cc wants (unless
it is simple a c compiler, sorry for being ignorant) my view would be (1)
build ant tasks (2) build centipede cents (to encapsulate standard
processing) and allow folks to glue it in o things like Gump via either Ant
form (ant proper, or ant in centipede).

BTW: I love "GOM" -- the sound of the acronym and the images it conjures,
but most importantly what it is trying to achieve. I think the GOM -- an
open way to describe interactions amongst disparate and distributed projects
is the power of Gump. I know this'll get much tougher as it strays from Java
only to other (different outputs than jars), but I see it as the most
valuable part to focus upon.

Just my tuppence...



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