From users-return-3286-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@groovy.apache.org Mon Feb 26 09:17:34 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 2A7D518064A for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 09:17:32 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 4813 invoked by uid 500); 26 Feb 2018 08:17:27 -0000 Mailing-List: contact users-help@groovy.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: users@groovy.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list users@groovy.apache.org Received: (qmail 4803 invoked by uid 99); 26 Feb 2018 08:17:27 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd1-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 08:17:27 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 8E4B4C0B35 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 08:17:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd1-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.293 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.293 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URI_HEX=1.313] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd1-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=asert-com-au.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mx1-lw-us.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd1-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.7]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CYOJVXq_PSXh for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 08:17:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oi0-f50.google.com (mail-oi0-f50.google.com [209.85.218.50]) by mx1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 810995F1E7 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 08:17:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oi0-f50.google.com with SMTP id j79so10000354oib.12 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 00:17:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=asert-com-au.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=zQrqs9yTkq23mnb4FhPlQj+TxjXQAgqvAfq/IufG2hY=; b=iou/uKPDkYg7AJXvj0aK6ElyTaMpM5zbYkPFbX/Mfg6nZZdHH8gNECafwrT2m4Jwz8 OQGqBraOQAEw1RqeuFRf6l1I1koB2iMe1udhRpYa0qxwnBWWTS4OAnK+9cP6Ezj/zY2E zlaupVeNa86lGehASQE59XHeLtYtTmsdHZjthQcjWn1e3eNTqe/0Ar6oF2HiEfPdDYnq 3HY833eEP6wT2zNcnQCKnhhkmO8okePSxyx4rNeVmWQa8esP3sM2rPSuu9Wisbq4FdX0 MA/Y00mo4qx4n4Dq/FNYCUVXx0mcnx56B39Ov2FvmdbDGRb9vjrd7pWPWT/bT0bmCA1d L45w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=zQrqs9yTkq23mnb4FhPlQj+TxjXQAgqvAfq/IufG2hY=; b=IVYB572LPENBUMTLfbKlqgDSBeE7r0u7wgDYyKGftzSCpV1qbujUCakwNCM45cjhgP kncbUJiO8xIiYsVKn5FFXVR+jIFnSevyUXpFV8uEXAkNHVl/Yk4w00/L9mV3Xilh/R0r UY11z8CnkcMZBwWMD7pgDt4HaFL0bo8vjo11PGSNVF25dYDm7RRgdbVOgRvr3K6octKx /Q2IItT0i1h2KSQdYTExupL5XyWCR6p4R189bO3l7LnFEYdJS+y4vYTDP8qxNGoGel6Y X1zq4CcQeQ+cUb1HSJc8Zs8lXqfhEiEgCxPixstXc741r4WzZ4TxWpDUP//Ip1eAwFko ogIQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPB+YDUyG5pnajuQP8h0dwI5RQWglYFlQUdrMQ/AOsJqaBxkP9FE a9438B1tH58OgSuIFiW/tdKHcf5XfOe5+Noze0RjfUEE X-Google-Smtp-Source: AG47ELtREmF3Z2VHzVyFF3NAI3uVcZqf0lSYVqqtbq1ul46oQWW5XmAKHJju+4DhKVtTL9uuhGQI6wwpUgq5ZHtUP7M= X-Received: by 10.202.52.10 with SMTP id b10mr6451823oia.49.1519633038098; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 00:17:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.74.58.135 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Feb 2018 00:17:17 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: paulk@asert.com.au In-Reply-To: References: <286B5C90-EE24-49CB-AB09-976B67F7645A@canoo.com> <5196c83c-24b9-77ec-159a-cb05a9dce432@arscreat.com> <1519550776040-0.post@n5.nabble.com> From: Paul King Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2018 18:17:17 +1000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback To: users@groovy.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113d430c6cd8690566192395" --001a113d430c6cd8690566192395 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 5:55 PM, S=C3=B8ren Berg Glasius wrote: > @Mario > > Very good thoughts, I really like the idea that an award is permanent, I > believe that goes for Java Champs as well. > > Naming wise, Groovyssimo is fun, but not naming material for an award :-) > But we need to narrow down the name-space to something realistic that can > be voted on. > Agreed on the good thoughts comment. Well, I guess you are going to rule out my spin on Nobel with the No-semis award idea too! :-) No-semis jokes aside, we have been given feedback from within Apache that we have to make sure that we cover off whatever we do in terms of Apache branding, making sure that the trademark Apache Groovy is honored and that such a scheme could never head down a path that would be in conflict with the ASF directions. Also, as C=C3=A9dric mentions we need to make a case wh= y existing schemes like "committer status" or "PMC status" might not apply. I agree with Guillaume that the idea of the award has always been for the entire ecosystem and the existing mechanisms for recognizing contributions to the Apacge Groovy project don't really apply well in the broader community context. Much like the ASF itself has different kinds of awards, e.g. member of the ASF vs committer/PMC for a particular project, I think a different award is needed here. Cheers, Paul. On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 at 08:50 Mario Garcia wrote: > >> +1 to what Guillaume said :) Common guys! Lets focus on what we think is >> a great language and let others think what they want! >> >> Regarding the duration of the award. I've though about it, trying not to >> think in terms of annually or permanent, but trying to see what's out th= ere >> outside the CS world, and I ended up thinking on the Nobel prize. I'd li= ke >> some ideas of Nobel prize: >> >> - Takes place every year >> - A given prize could be vacant a given year. >> - It's so important that it's really noticeable to be awarded >> - Makes people very proud of some achievement they did a given year >> - Once you're a Nobel you will always be a Nobel. >> - Of course there's been awarded people that even rejected the prize >> but that never really underrated the prize overtime >> - New members are chosen by previous members and some other relevant >> people (members of the parliament among others). Here I'd add the >> idea of letting anybody to propose a nominee, but leaving the final >> decision to the prize committee (whatever we decide who is in) >> >> Despite the difference of content between the Nobel prize and the Groovy >> awards, after reviewing these points I think they seem to fit better in = the >> Groovy Champions/Stars idea. There is also something I haven't heard yet= . I >> guess this will require a kind of permanent organization, e.g. to contac= t >> members, nominees, organize the awards, a web to show the winners...etc >> >> BTW: Here you have another naming for the awards: Groovisimo Awards. Can >> you imaging a "Groovisimo" statue like the Oscars ? It would be a blast >> XDDDD >> >> My two cents >> Mario >> >> 2018-02-25 10:53 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Laforge : >> >>> James Stachan's quote has really been taken out of context, and >>> over-exagerated bu the Scala-fanboys. >>> If Scala had been what it is now, James would probably not have >>> initiated Groovy *then*. But Scala was nascent just like Groovy *then*. >>> It's like if Gavin King had said that he wouldn't have invented >>> Hibernate if JPA had existed... but JPA came ten years later. >>> >>> This quote was really harmful, but as the saying goes, lots of water's >>> gone through the bridges since then. >>> >>> There's still the myth of slowliness, which we all know is not true >>> anymore, even in pure dynamic mode (without even mentioning static >>> compilation) >>> Usually, you spend way more time in network latency (access to remote >>> resources, access to database, etc) than waiting for the CPU spent by j= ust >>> the pure language execution time. >>> >>> Also back on James Strachan: he went to play with Scala, then with >>> Kotlin, and has come back to using Groovy. >>> He's using Groovy on a regular basis through his work with Jenkins, its >>> pipelines, etc. >>> So he's back at his old love! >>> >>> So let's turn the page on those stories, please. >>> >>> Guillaume >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Daniel Sun >>> wrote: >>> >>>> The creator of Groovy said "I can honestly say if someone had shown me >>>> the >>>> Programming in Scala book...". I think he compared Scala with the old >>>> version of Groovy he created in about 2003. As we all know, Groovy has >>>> evolved a lot, so I never care about others' out-dated opinions on >>>> Groovy :) >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Daniel.Sun >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.htm= l >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Guillaume Laforge >>> Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President >>> Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform >>> >>> Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/ >>> Social: @glaforge / Google+ >>> >>> >> >> -- > Best regards / Med venlig hilsen, > S=C3=B8ren Berg Glasius > > Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark > Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88 <+45%2040%2044%2091%2088>, Skype: sbglasius > --- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes. > --001a113d430c6cd8690566192395 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 5:55 PM, S=C3=B8ren Berg Glasius <soeren@glasi= us.dk> wrote:
@Mario=C2=A0

Very good thoughts, = I really like the idea that an award is permanent, I believe that goes for = Java Champs as well.

Naming wise, Groovyssimo is f= un, but not naming material for an award :-) But we need to narrow down the= name-space to something realistic that can be voted on.

Agreed on the good thoughts comment. Well, I gues= s you are going to rule out my spin on Nobel with the No-semis award idea t= oo! :-)
=C2=A0
No-semis jokes aside, we have been given= feedback from within Apache that we have to make sure that we cover off wh= atever we do in terms of Apache branding, making sure that the trademark Ap= ache Groovy is honored and that such a scheme could never head down a path = that would be in conflict with the ASF directions. Also, as=C2=A0C=C3=A9dri= c mentions we need to make a case why existing schemes like "committer= status" or "PMC status" might not apply. I agree with Guill= aume that the idea of the award has always been for the entire ecosystem an= d the existing mechanisms for recognizing contributions to the Apacge Groov= y project don't really apply well in the broader community context. Muc= h like the ASF itself has different kinds of awards, e.g. member of the ASF= vs committer/PMC for a particular project, I think a different award is ne= eded here.

Cheers, Paul.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2= 018 at 08:50 Mario Garcia <mario.ggar@gmail.com> wrote:
+1 to what Guillaume said= :) Common guys! Lets focus on what we think is a great language and let ot= hers think what they want!=C2=A0

Regarding the duration = of the award. I've though about it, trying not to think in terms of ann= ually or permanent, but trying to see what's out there outside the CS w= orld, and I ended up thinking on the Nobel prize. I'd like some ideas o= f Nobel prize:
  • Takes place every year
  • A given= prize could be vacant a given year.=C2=A0
  • It's so importan= t that it's really noticeable to be awarded
  • Makes people ve= ry proud of some achievement they did a given year
  • Once you'= ;re a Nobel you will always be a Nobel.
  • Of=C2=A0 course there's= been awarded people that even rejected the prize but that never really und= errated the prize overtime=C2=A0
  • New members are chosen by previous= members and some other relevant people (members of the parliament among ot= hers). Here I'd=C2=A0add the idea of letting = anybody to propose a nominee, but leaving the final decision to the prize c= ommittee (whatever we decide who is in)
Despite = the difference of content between the Nobel prize and the Groovy awards, af= ter reviewing these points I think they seem to fit better in the Groovy Ch= ampions/Stars idea. There is also something I haven't heard yet. I gues= s this will require a kind of permanent organization, e.g. to contact membe= rs, nominees, organize the awards, a web to show the winners...etc

BTW: Here you have another naming for the awards: Groovisi= mo Awards. Can you imaging a "Groovisimo" statue like the Oscars = ? It would be a blast XDDDD=C2=A0=C2=A0

My two cen= ts
Mario

2018-02-25 10:53 GMT+01:00 Guillaume La= forge <glaforge@gmail.com>:
James Stachan's quote has really= been taken out of context, and over-exagerated bu the Scala-fanboys.
I= f Scala had been what it is now, James would probably not have initiated Gr= oovy *then*. But Scala was nascent just like Groovy *then*.
It= 9;s like if Gavin King had said that he wouldn't have invented Hibernat= e if JPA had existed... but JPA came ten years later.

<= div>This quote was really harmful, but as the saying goes, lots of water= 9;s gone through the bridges since then.

There'= ;s still the myth of slowliness, which we all know is not true anymore, eve= n in pure dynamic mode (without even mentioning static compilation)=C2=A0
Usually, you spend way more time in network latency (access to rem= ote resources, access to database, etc) than waiting for the CPU spent by j= ust the pure language execution time.

Also back on= James Strachan: he went to play with Scala, then with Kotlin, and has come= back to using Groovy.
He's using Groovy on a regular basis t= hrough his work with Jenkins, its pipelines, etc.
So he's bac= k at his old love!

So let's turn the page on t= hose stories, please.

Guillau= me

=

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Daniel Sun <realbluesun@hotmail.com> wrote:
The creator of Groovy said "I can honestly sa= y if someone had shown me the
Programming in Scala book...". I think he compared Scala with the old<= br> version of Groovy he created in about 2003. As we all know, Groovy has
evolved a lot, so I never care about others' out-dated opinions on Groo= vy :)

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun



--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.= nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html



<= /div>--
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-Pre= sident
Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform
=

Blog:=C2=A0http://glaforge.appspot.com/
Social: @glaforge=C2=A0/ <= a href=3D"https://plus.google.com/u/0/114130972232398734985/posts" target= =3D"_blank">Google+

--
Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
S=C3=B8ren Berg Glasius

Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680= Ry, Denmark
Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88, Skype: sbglasius
--- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.

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