The examples I gave were purely to illustrate how annoying/harmful bad signals can be, as to explain better why I think new bad signals should be avoided if possible.
Same as I have evaluated Groovy a few years back, others are evaluating it right now. And most of them will not be at conferences listening to presentations, but instead using Google, forums and stackeroverflow etc.

Do we know that Groovy is a swell language ? Yes, of course.
But that' beside the point, because don't we want to do our best to convince people who might be sceptical or on the fence, without giving people like the "Scala fanboys" you mention (I did meet those in the net a few years back, quite fanboish/fanatical indeed - one thing that I found immediately refreshing me about Groovy and it's community was, that it seemed far lesss fanatical, and far more practical than proponents of other alternative JVM languages) any new ammunition ?

Btw, I don't know if you have noticed this, but there is of course also a battle for programmers' hearts going on in Wikipedia. Groovy is grossly underrepresented here, when e.g. examples in different languages for a general IT topic are given. I have added some Groovy related info to WIkipedia on multiple occasions, seeing that Scala, and later a surprising amount of Kotlin (for such a young language) were already there...

Cheers,
mg


On 25.02.2018 10:53, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
James Stachan's quote has really been taken out of context, and over-exagerated bu the Scala-fanboys.
If Scala had been what it is now, James would probably not have initiated Groovy *then*. But Scala was nascent just like Groovy *then*.
It's like if Gavin King had said that he wouldn't have invented Hibernate if JPA had existed... but JPA came ten years later.

This quote was really harmful, but as the saying goes, lots of water's gone through the bridges since then.

There's still the myth of slowliness, which we all know is not true anymore, even in pure dynamic mode (without even mentioning static compilation) 
Usually, you spend way more time in network latency (access to remote resources, access to database, etc) than waiting for the CPU spent by just the pure language execution time.

Also back on James Strachan: he went to play with Scala, then with Kotlin, and has come back to using Groovy.
He's using Groovy on a regular basis through his work with Jenkins, its pipelines, etc.
So he's back at his old love!

So let's turn the page on those stories, please.

Guillaume


On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Daniel Sun <realbluesun@hotmail.com> wrote:
The creator of Groovy said "I can honestly say if someone had shown me the
Programming in Scala book...". I think he compared Scala with the old
version of Groovy he created in about 2003. As we all know, Groovy has
evolved a lot, so I never care about others' out-dated opinions on Groovy :)



--
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform