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From MG <mg...@arscreat.com>
Subject Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback
Date Thu, 15 Feb 2018 05:04:09 GMT
One other thing from the no-brainers section that Kotlin does better 
than Groovy: Ctors can be called without the new keyword.
(Groovy's offer in this regard is alas severly lacking, hence nobody 
uses it...)

On 14.02.2018 22:50, MG wrote:
> PPS: I do not agree with you assessment of Kotlin: Apart from it being 
> always statically typed (less flexible than Groovy, but sometimes just 
> all one needs, and definitely easier for Java-only-developers to wrap 
> their head around; also helps avoid the annoying "only a scripting 
> language" tag), I find it to be 95% Groovy, with an added 5% of really 
> weird/bad syntactic/semantic decisions (Javascript type declarartion 
> syntax, which works well for a very weakly typed language only were 
> you seldom use it, and the imho clumsy non-null-syntax semantics).
> Implementation wise they have done some things which Groovy should do, 
> but these are no-brainers, e.g. the semantics of inline closures, or 
> that final variables with no explicit type are not of type Object, but 
> of the type they were assigned, or named parameters support which does 
> not try to force-map the problem to a (non type safe) map.
>
>
> On 14.02.2018 12:23, Cédric Champeau wrote:
>>
>>     Or for something with a bit more pep "Groovy Vanguard Developer /
>>     Contributor 2018" or "Groovy Crack 2018".
>>
>>     Contrary to Java Champions, I would suggest tying it to a
>>     specific year:
>>
>>
>> I like the idea of having it associated with a year, but it doesn't 
>> have to. Explanation below.
>>
>>     That way people who no longer are Groovy contributors do not
>>     carry the title forever (the Russian guy who is now working on
>>     Kotlin comes to mind)
>>
>>
>> His name is Alex Tkachman, and while he's not involved in the 
>> language anymore, he's still one of the biggest contributors to 
>> Groovy. Most of the performance improvements in the "legacy" (non 
>> indy) dynamic runtime of Groovy were from him and still active. He 
>> was also source of inspiration for the static compiler (Groovy++). I 
>> think he deserves the title more than lots of us. And I think we 
>> shouldn't go into the "he's gone to competition" route. Languages 
>> evolve, Kotlin is a very nice language, that took inspiration from us 
>> as well as others, and we have lots of things to learn from it too.
>>
>>     , and on the other hand some people could get the title several
>>     years in a row, as a sign of continued gratitude.
>>
>>
>> If they do, they would be good candidates for the PMC.
>>
>>     Cheers,
>>     mg
>>
>>
>>
>>     On 13.02.2018 14:13, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:
>>>     +1 on the name!
>>>
>>>     I think it's cool to differentiate the Groovy award from other
>>>     awards like Java Rock-stars and Java Champions, Grails
>>>     Rock-stars, and more!
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 14:09 Guillaume Laforge
>>>     <glaforge@gmail.com <mailto:glaforge@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         It's funny, I think we didn't think about "stars" in our
>>>         previous conversations, and I must say I quite like it, and
>>>         it makes sense considering our logo :-D
>>>
>>>         On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Jennifer Strater
>>>         <jenn.strater@gmail.com <mailto:jenn.strater@gmail.com>>
wrote:
>>>
>>>             +1 for the proposal and +1 for "Groovy Stars"
>>>
>>>             On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:54 PM, Paul King
>>>             <paulk@asert.com.au <mailto:paulk@asert.com.au>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                 I don't mind "Groovy Stars" as a name!
>>>
>>>                 Of course it begs the question "Star trek" or "Star
>>>                 Wars" - the long journey
>>>                 of programming language design vs the language wars!
>>>                 :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>                 On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:46 PM, Dierk König
>>>                 <dierk.koenig@canoo.com
>>>                 <mailto:dierk.koenig@canoo.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                     I’m all for honoring contributions to the
>>>                     language/ecosystem/community.
>>>                     Given our logo, „Groovy Star“ comes to mind :-)
>>>
>>>                     Cheers
>>>                     Dierk
>>>
>>>                     sent from:mobile
>>>
>>>                     Am 13.02.2018 um 12:29 schrieb Paolo Di Tommaso
>>>                     <paolo.ditommaso@gmail.com
>>>                     <mailto:paolo.ditommaso@gmail.com>>:
>>>
>>>>                     It sound a nice idea also to promote the
>>>>                     visibility of the groovy community.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                     p
>>>>
>>>>                     On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Søren Berg
>>>>                     Glasius <soeren@glasius.dk
>>>>                     <mailto:soeren@glasius.dk>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                         I'm definitely +1
>>>>
>>>>                         It is always important to recognize and
>>>>                         encourage the ones making a difference to
>>>>                         the community.
>>>>
>>>>                         On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 11:32 Schalk Cronjé
>>>>                         <ysb33r@gmail.com
>>>>                         <mailto:ysb33r@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                             That's a +1 from me for the concep.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                             On 13/02/2018 10:58, Paul King wrote:
>>>>                             >
>>>>                             > Hi everyone,
>>>>                             >
>>>>                             > A few of us have had various
>>>>                             discussions (in fact over many years)
>>>>                             > about having a recognition scheme
>>>>                             similar to Java Champions,
>>>>                             > perhaps called "Groovy Champions" or
>>>>                             "Apache Groovy Champions"
>>>>                             > or something else entirely if we
>>>>                             think of a better name.
>>>>                             >
>>>>                             > I think the idea has always been to
>>>>                             recognize contribution within the
>>>>                             > whole Groovy ecosystem not just the
>>>>                             Apache Groovy project. The many
>>>>                             > tens of projects within the ecosystem
>>>>                             are often where many ideas come
>>>>                             > from for the project's future
>>>>                             evolution and also where future
>>>>                             contributors
>>>>                             > may arise. And in any case, Groovy
>>>>                             has always been about making
>>>>                             > coding productive and fun and we
>>>>                             should celebrate that widely!
>>>>                             >
>>>>                             > There are various questions to ask
>>>>                             like should such a scheme
>>>>                             > be formally coordinated by the
>>>>                             project/by Apache or should it be run as a
>>>>                             > community-driven unsanctioned
>>>>                             activity and if so what guidelines should
>>>>                             > be in place. Also, there are many
>>>>                             details like how will the scheme
>>>>                             > operate?
>>>>                             > How are new members elected? Is it a
>>>>                             lifetime recognition or is there
>>>>                             > an "emeritus" status? And so forth.
>>>>                             Java Champions vote themselves
>>>>                             > on new champions and the recognition
>>>>                             has a lifetime status for instance.
>>>>                             > if we progress this idea, we'd need
>>>>                             to make that all clear but that isn't
>>>>                             > the purpose of this email - we need
>>>>                             to first decide if we like the idea.
>>>>                             >
>>>>                             > Even if we like the idea, there are
>>>>                             still some hurdles to step through.
>>>>                             > We've already sought some informal
>>>>                             feedback from other parts of
>>>>                             > Apache and other projects within the
>>>>                             Groovy Ecosystem and we'll
>>>>                             > likely need further discussions. We
>>>>                             want something that embraces
>>>>                             > the whole community but fits in with
>>>>                             Apache project governance
>>>>                             > around trademarks/branding.
>>>>                             >
>>>>                             > So, the first question is: are we as
>>>>                             a project in favor of such a scheme?
>>>>                             >
>>>>                             > Cheers, Paul.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                             --
>>>>                             Schalk W. Cronjé
>>>>                             Twitter / Ello / Toeter : @ysb33r
>>>>
>>>>                         -- 
>>>>                         Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
>>>>                         Søren Berg Glasius
>>>>
>>>>                         Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
>>>>                         Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88
>>>>                         <tel:+45%2040%2044%2091%2088>, Skype: sbglasius
>>>>                         --- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save
>>>>                         the changes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         -- 
>>>         Guillaume Laforge
>>>         Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
>>>         Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform
>>>
>>>         Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
>>>         <http://glaforge.appspot.com/>
>>>         Social: @glaforge <http://twitter.com/glaforge> / Google+
>>>         <https://plus.google.com/u/0/114130972232398734985/posts>
>>>
>>>     -- 
>>>     Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
>>>     Søren Berg Glasius
>>>
>>>     Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
>>>     Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88 <tel:+45%2040%2044%2091%2088>, Skype:
>>>     sbglasius
>>>     --- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.
>>
>>
>


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