Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-groovy-users-archive@minotaur.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-groovy-users-archive@minotaur.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 60CB418433 for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:55:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 5928 invoked by uid 500); 9 Oct 2015 18:55:53 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-groovy-users-archive@groovy.apache.org Received: (qmail 5893 invoked by uid 500); 9 Oct 2015 18:55:53 -0000 Mailing-List: contact users-help@groovy.incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: users@groovy.incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list users@groovy.incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 5883 invoked by uid 99); 9 Oct 2015 18:55:53 -0000 Received: from Unknown (HELO spamd1-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 18:55:53 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id A41F8C14BC for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:55:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd1-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.901 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd1-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-us-east.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd1-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.7]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hNOOyi8Vap9o for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:55:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oi0-f48.google.com (mail-oi0-f48.google.com [209.85.218.48]) by mx1-us-east.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-us-east.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 58F9F429AA for ; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 18:55:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by oiak8 with SMTP id k8so34765953oia.1 for ; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 11:55:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=jD9c7owdusHhzELuThEOfCNu5L0pdniyC3DoNLaFd6o=; b=cZbzNHDWN2Emf8eMC0ED5nDACNpHFEnPyAPYAFMzS/qKEKQ4aNxEBxMatwDyMtS+YR +rybTHLgh6dYDLcCItPV8GZOT8efvmmu/mpHUTgHqhegpQHlWw+XccjO5alEp+/BAPKF KQVqE1AEDtjlA6ggqr1LGzXP0YvF92mhTElDEHcVVhJGpJ9l9LUkFDGQvLJo3pwxv2L6 jYh9donxFkdlyRspzFcSAZGxp62FJQd/vL+5t7VrKG1zjhpeYd5X2MUpdqzpw41zeJF1 FUi3tNFNbhNh/HFEd9i5Y6GIbwPSBpTOYiIPYBFqL/I6ibuKMGSMOfBVoiDe7ynkB/wL 7/tw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.232.12 with SMTP id f12mr7966962oih.122.1444416932490; Fri, 09 Oct 2015 11:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.206.148 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Oct 2015 11:55:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 20:55:32 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: A Brief History of Groovy From: Guillaume Laforge To: users@groovy.incubator.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11408b6e2b36580521b086f2 --001a11408b6e2b36580521b086f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On the infamous quote, I've also replied to a Quora question there: https://www.quora.com/Is-Groovy-going-away Basically, I often try to make parallels. For instance, if JPA had existed 10 years before, would someone like Gavin King had created Hibernate? Likely not. So if language X had offered the same level of productivity as Groovy on the JVM, when Groovy was created, the itch to scratch to create something like that wouldn't have been there. Anyhow, leaders, committers, advocates come and go. James worked a couple of years on Groovy, or three, and then moved on to create ActiveMQ, then later on ServiceMix, etc. James is a very creative person, and moves his attentions to newer projects. Other folks like to finish things through, and spend time to achieve their goals for the project. An OSS project needs different kind of persons, I think. I'll always be grateful to James for giving me the chance to work on such a wonderful and lovely project. It was the beginning of my career when I started on Groovy, and I had the change to learn a lot from working with him. On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 7:30 PM, Owen Rubel wrote: > I write a few articles about Groovy and every now and then I have a Scala > fanatic through the James Strachan quote in my face. You know the one? The > one where he is quoted on a Scala blog saying how if he had known about > Scala when he was writing Groovy, he would have never created it'?? > > I always like to say to people that he wasn't that involved with the > project and he left early on... but I always wanted to know what happened. > And the truth would make you so proud of your current leaders that I had to > share. > > Apparently as the team was pushing to hit their 1.0 launch, James was > dragging his feet and there was some pushback (at least from what I can > tell). > > This all came to a head when James published an article on his blog > entitled 'Groovy is Dead' (article not available - if someone has this, I > would LOVE to read). > > The community response? Calm, cool, collected. Some even considered the > response as positive feedback for the project. Others defended him and said > that it was unfair to ask him to leave the project. All in all, I was > amazed to see the level of cool heads to the kind of attack that was > leveled at a project that was still 'alpha'. > > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.groovy.jsr/month=20050101 > > As we all know, Guillaume took over the project and has been a stellar > leader since then. This was his initial post on the matter showing his > leadership skills even back then... > > http://glaforge.appspot.com/article/groovy-s-dead-long-live-groovy > > Why do I bring this up? Two reason... to understand the day to day of what > our leaders go through and to understand that we ALL have the ability to be > 'James' > > I realize myself in reading that that there are people who want me to do > well, that want me to succeed in spite of myself. There will always be > those who will be naysayers out there but for the few who believe you have > something, do it for them... rise to the occassion. > > If you can stay afloat, tomorrow may bring 2.0 of your life! > > So with that... the next time someone tells you that quote oj James > Strachan know two things: James was probably still upset and Scala appeals > to a different group of people. > > Also remember how our current leaders didn't falter and rose to the > occasion. And let that smile comes to mind whenever those Scala guys try to > bring you down. :) > > > Owen Rubel > 415-971-0976 > orubel@gmail.com > > > -- Guillaume Laforge Apache Groovy committer & PMC member Product Ninja & Advocate at Restlet Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/ Social: @glaforge / Google+ --001a11408b6e2b36580521b086f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On the infamous quote, I've also replied to a Quora qu= estion there:

B= asically, I often try to make parallels.
For instance, if JPA had= existed 10 years before, would someone like Gavin King had created Hiberna= te? Likely not.
So if language X had offered the same level of pr= oductivity as Groovy on the JVM, when Groovy was created, the itch to scrat= ch to create something like that wouldn't have been there.
Anyhow, leaders, committers, advocates come and go.
=
James worked a couple of years on Groovy, or three, and then= moved on to create ActiveMQ, then later on ServiceMix, etc.
Jame= s is a very creative person, and moves his attentions to newer projects.
Other folks like to finish things through, and spend time to achiev= e their goals for the project.
An OSS project needs different kin= d of persons, I think.

I'll always be grateful= to James for giving me the chance to work on such a wonderful and lovely p= roject.
It was the beginning of my career when I started on Groov= y, and I had the change to learn a lot from working with him.


On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 7:30 PM, Owen Rubel <= ;orubel@gmail.com= > wrote:
I wri= te a few articles about Groovy and every now and then I have a Scala fanati= c through the James Strachan quote in my face. You know the one? The one wh= ere he is quoted on a Scala blog saying how if he had known about Scala whe= n he was writing Groovy, he would have never created it'??

I always like to say to people that he wasn't that involved with= the project and he left early on... but I always wanted to know what happe= ned. And the truth would make you so proud of your current leaders that I h= ad to share.

Apparently as the team was pushing to= hit their 1.0 launch, James was dragging his feet and there was some pushb= ack (at least from what I can tell).

This all came= to a head when James published an article on his blog entitled 'Groovy= is Dead' (article not available - if someone has this, I would LOVE to= read).

The community response? Calm, cool, collec= ted. Some even considered the response as positive feedback for the project= . Others defended him and said that it was unfair to ask him to leave the p= roject. All in all, I was amazed to see the level of cool heads to the kind= of attack that was leveled at a project that was still 'alpha'.


As we a= ll know, Guillaume took over the project and has been a stellar leader sinc= e then. This was his initial post on the matter showing his leadership skil= ls even back then...


Why do I bring this up? Two reason... to understand the d= ay to day of what our leaders go through and to understand that we ALL have= the ability to be 'James'

I realize mysel= f in reading that that there are people who want me to do well, that want m= e to succeed in spite of myself. There will always be those who will be nay= sayers out there but for the few who believe you have something, do it for = them... rise to the occassion.

If you can stay afl= oat, tomorrow may bring 2.0 of your life!

So with = that... the next time someone tells you that quote oj James Strachan know t= wo things: James was probably still upset and Scala appeals to a different = group of people.

Also remember how our current lea= ders didn't falter and rose to the occasion. And let that smile comes t= o mind whenever those Scala guys try to bring you down. :)


Owen Rubel
415-971-0976
orubel@gmail.com





--
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer & PMC m= ember
Product Ninja & Advocate at Restlet

--001a11408b6e2b36580521b086f2--