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From C├ędric Champeau <cedric.champ...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Groovy to develop for Android
Date Thu, 21 May 2015 07:10:49 GMT
Regarding the first message and performance, I still have to find a
concrete benchmark showing a difference in performance between statically
compiled Groovy and Kotlin.
 I had discussed with several folks from Jetbrains about Kotlin and
Android, and while this is very true that their runtime is much more
compact than ours (and they have a runtime too, despite what you can read),
there's AFAIK no performance difference. There might be a slower
initialization phase for a Groovy app, because we cannot (yet) totally
eliminate the generation of a metaclass
 even for statically compiled code, but the "benchmark" from Jake Wharton
is biased because it was done before 2.4 was out and without the Gradle
plugin. It says Groovy is slow but I have no proof of
that, and no one came up with something when I asked for it.

If you find code which is slow under Android, I am pretty sure it is likely
a bug, or dynamic code, so it can be fixed.


2015-05-21 3:09 GMT+02:00 Paco Zarate <contacto@nazcasistemas.com>:

> I would suggest you also to subscribe to the kotlin mailing list. I don't
> use kotlin nor participate on the mailing list, but i think it is really
> important when exploring new technologies (and in particular not very
> mature technologies) to have a sense on how participative is the user
> community, their priorities, how diverse it is, how is the interactions
> with the mortal developers like us, because you will be there for some
> months/years.
>
> My experience with the groovy community and resources like this mailing
> list is amazing. I have been learning something new on each new discussion
> thread and it is one of the few mailing lists that i keep following closely
> because i feel that gives me an added value that I won't find easily on
> other places.
>
> Also I would suggest looking at the committers list from their source
> repository,  it can give you and idea on who and how many are the kotlin
> developers, it they are all from Jetbrains or just one developer it would
> be a yellow alert in comparison with Groovy, because kotlin would have the
> resources concentrated, so if there is a change on Jetbrains business
> (priorities, financial, etc), the entire project is in risk. I like that
> Groovy is diverse in their core team and makes me feel more comfortable
> even on this transition times from Pivotal's stewardship.
>
> Paco.
>
> On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Dmitry Semionin <
> dmitry.semionin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello again everybody,
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback you provided, i do appreciate your effort guys =).
>> I'd like to comment on a few points blackdrag made.
>>
>> Like i said before, i'm facing a choice between Groovy and Kotlin for my
>> Android development tasks. And yes, right now i'm doing it alone, so
>> there's no pressure from outside and i don't have to follow anyone else's
>> guidelines. But still i would like to make a wise choice and spend my time
>> on something that i would be able to successfully apply for solving other
>> types of tasks too.
>>
>>
>>>  3. Best suited for use inside the JetBrains ecosystem, which means that
>>>> outside of it there might be some issues.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We are taking about developing apps... are you going to use Kotlin
>>> outside of an Android Studio environment? If not, then this is nothing to
>>> worry about. And if yes, there is still Gradle and a Eclipse plugin.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, when talking about Android development _only_, i don't think
>> thinking about what's outside of Android Studio matters. But Kotlin is not
>> peddled as a language for Android only. Nor is Groovy. So i'm trying to
>> figure out which of them has a bigger universal potential.
>>
>>
>>> My question would be more like... are you working alone? Then it is
>>> probably best to take the tool you find more comfortable with.
>>
>>
>> And to understand which tool is more comfortable one has to spend some
>> time working with it, right? ;) I wish i had all the time in the world just
>> to try programming languages and standard libraries like shoes so that i
>> can actually feel which one suits me better. But i don't have this luxury
>> right now, and the reason behind my post is to find out what other, more
>> well-versed programmers, found comfortable for themselves. I don't think
>> i'm too unique for their experience to be in vain.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> But I can tell you as much: There is no true best choice when it comes
>>> to programming languages. Especially not when it is going to be a long term
>>> project.
>>>
>>
>> True. But some choices are still better than others. For example, i have
>> 8 years programming with C++, so for me it's obviously a tool i feel
>> comfortable with. But obviously it's not the best choice for most of the
>> modern apps. So is Groovy good enough to view it not only as a Java
>> replacement for Android, but also a good universal tool? Maybe not the
>> best, but at least worth of mastering it?
>>
>> - Dmitry Semionin
>>
>
>

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