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Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 22:06:18 -0500
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Subject: Why aren't more people looking at Groovy?
From: Eric MacAdie <emacadie@gmail.com>
To: users@groovy.incubator.apache.org
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I started this discussion on the old list, and someone said it should be
brought here.

Here is my original post:


*In addition to Groovy, I am also interested in Clojure. I found an
interesting article on the Clojure reddit: "Our curvy road to Clojure" at
http://inside.unbounce.com/product-dev/our-curvy-road-to-clojure/
<http://inside.unbounce.com/product-dev/our-curvy-road-to-clojure/>*


*The basic gist of the article is that they were a Java and Ruby shop, and
they realized that combination was not working as well as they hoped, so
they started looking for alternatives. They tried JRuby and Scala, before
settling on Clojure.*


*What I find odd is he never mentions looking at Groovy. I hear and read a
lot about shops that start out using Java and pick up Ruby, and some of
them eventually realize that the chocolate and the peanut butter do not mix
as well as they had hoped. So they look for something else. Yet I never
hear about any of them looking at Groovy. It seems like if you are using
Java for heavy lifting and Ruby for more dynamic/agile work that Groovy
would be a great fit.*
*Has anyone else noticed this? Any thoughts?*
I left a comment on the Unbounce blog asking if they looked at Groovy, and
here is the response:

*In their pre-Unbounce lives, several of us have had experience with
Groovy, from short embedded scripts to full blown Grails apps ; thus we
have a good grasp of the language.*

*There's no doubt that Groovy has some very strong points, including
closures, progressive typing, null-safe property navigation and tons of
smart extensions to the JDK. But the fact the language is mutable by
default and supports meta-programming (expando meta-class), has the
capacity to complicate things. If you've worked on a non-trivial Grails
application, I'm sure sure you know what I mean.*

*Moreover, from a pure perception standpoint, despite 12 years of
existence, Groovy seems to have stayed a niche language. Its tumultuous
past and uncertain future, doesn't help deciding to bet the house on it.
The addition of closures and streaming API to Java, the rise of Rx, makes a
massive shift towards Groovy less likely in the future.*

*Considering all of these, Clojure seemed a safer choice. There's a strong
language theory behind it. Its community is vibrant, opinionated and
pragmatic, a rare combination in our industry.*

*We'll see in the future if our bet was right or not. In the meantime, what
a great ride :)*


= Eric MacAdie

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I started this discussion on the old list, and someone sai=
d it should be brought here.<br><br>Here is my original post:<br><div><div>=
<div><i><br>In addition to Groovy, I am also interested in Clojure. I
 found an interesting article on the Clojure reddit: &quot;Our curvy road t=
o=20
Clojure&quot; at <a href=3D"http://inside.unbounce.com/product-dev/our-curv=
y-road-to-clojure/" target=3D"_blank">http://inside.unbounce.com/product-de=
v/our-curvy-road-to-clojure/</a><br><br></i></div><i>The
 basic gist of the article is that they were a Java and Ruby shop, and=20
they realized that combination was not working as well as they hoped, so
 they started looking for alternatives. They tried JRuby and Scala,=20
before settling on Clojure.<br><br></i></div><i>What I find odd is he never=
 mentions looking at Groovy. <br><br>I
 hear and read a lot about shops that start out using Java and pick up=20
Ruby, and some of them eventually realize that the chocolate and the=20
peanut butter do not mix as well as they had hoped. So they look for=20
something else. Yet I never hear about any of them looking at Groovy. It
 seems like if you are using Java for heavy lifting and Ruby for more=20
dynamic/agile work that Groovy would be a great fit.<br><br></i></div><i>Ha=
s anyone else noticed this? Any thoughts?</i><div><div><img class=3D"" src=
=3D"https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif"></div></d=
iv>I left a comment on the Unbounce blog asking if they looked at Groovy, a=
nd here is the response:<br>
<p><i>In their pre-Unbounce lives, several of us have had experience with=
=20
Groovy, from short embedded scripts to full blown Grails apps ; thus we=20
have a good grasp of the language.</i></p><p><i>There&#39;s no doubt that G=
roovy=20
has some very strong points, including closures, progressive typing,=20
null-safe property navigation and tons of smart extensions to the JDK.=20
But the fact the language is mutable by default and supports=20
meta-programming (expando meta-class), has the capacity to complicate=20
things. If you&#39;ve worked on a non-trivial Grails application, I&#39;m s=
ure=20
sure you know what I mean.</i></p><p><i>Moreover, from a pure perception=20
standpoint, despite 12 years of existence, Groovy seems to have stayed a
 niche language. Its tumultuous past and uncertain future, doesn&#39;t help=
=20
deciding to bet the house on it. The addition of closures and streaming=20
API to Java, the rise of Rx, makes a massive shift towards Groovy less=20
likely in the future.</i></p><p><i>Considering all of these, Clojure seemed=
 a=20
safer choice. There&#39;s a strong language theory behind it. Its community=
=20
is vibrant, opinionated and pragmatic, a rare combination in our=20
industry.</i></p><p><i>We&#39;ll see in the future if our bet was right or =
not. In the meantime, what a great ride :)</i></p><p><br></p><p>=3D Eric Ma=
cAdie<i><br></i></p></div>

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