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From Sergio del Amo Caballero <sergio.del...@softamo.com>
Subject Re: Binary compatibility fixed + Kotlin DSL
Date Wed, 20 Mar 2019 21:35:11 GMT
I don’t know what do you imply that I am trying to hide.

I think: 

- Gradle Groovy DSL helps Groovy adoption and thus survival. 

same as Geb DSL on top of Selenium helps Groovy adoption and thus survival. 

I think if everyone moves to Kotlin DSL, Gradle Inc will lose interest in maintaining Groovy
Gradle DSL and eventually deprecate the Groovy Gradle DSL and remove it and hurt Groovy adoption
and thus survival .

I think that Apache Groovy build transitions towards Kotlin DSL is a signal towards prompting
that move. 

 About maintaining the build itself:

- If the only person touching the build is going to be someone with Kotlin and Groovy knowledge,
then I would say better to have the DSL in the language they are more productive with it.
- If persons, who touch the build, don’t know Kotlin, I think that it is another barrier.
I assume that someone with no Kotlin Knowledge but using the Kotlin DSL and assisted by the
IDE support is going to do a worst job than someone with a lot of Groovy knowledge using the
Groovy Gradle DSL. 

Sergio del Amo

> On 20 Mar 2019, at 21:50, Cédric Champeau <cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> And do you honestly think that trying to hide that by not using the Kotlin DSL would
change anything?
> 
>>> Le mer. 20 mars 2019 à 21:45, Sergio Del Amo <sergio.delamo@softamo.com>
a écrit :
>>> 
>> 
>>> I do in fact see this as at least a minor threat.  If Groovy itself can't even
manage to use the Gradle Groovy DSL, what hope remains for the survival of the Groovy DSL?
>> 
>> 
>> Agree. I see a threat at least to Gradle Groovy DSL survival and probably to Groovy
in general. One may reason: If the Groovy programming language build, which is manipulated
by the people with more Groovy knowledge in the planet, moved to Kotlin DSL, why should anyone
else keep using the Gradle Groovy DSL.
>> 
>> Sergio
>> 
>>> On 20 Mar 2019, at 16:00, Milles, Eric (TR Tech, Content & Ops) <eric.milles@thomsonreuters.com>
wrote:
>>> 
>>> I tried to get some info from Gradle on adding Eclipse DSLD for Gradle and they
scoffed at me.  They said it was a multi-person, multi-year effort so why even try.  I was
able to get some very basic support without that much effort.  It could be moved forward and
probably ported to IntelliJ as well if there was some interest and support.
>>> 
>>> With regards to the change to the Groovy build script.  I'm not sure newcomers
are diving into the build scripts and making edits there.  My intuition is that they are running
"./gradlew build" or whatever the command is.  As long as the scripts run successfully, I'd
posit a newcomer is quite happy.
>>> 
>>> I do in fact see this as at least a minor threat.  If Groovy itself can't even
manage to use the Gradle Groovy DSL, what hope remains for the survival of the Groovy DSL?

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