From dev-return-5811-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@groovy.apache.org Fri Feb 1 03:01:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id DCFAA180648 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 04:01:54 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 80720 invoked by uid 500); 1 Feb 2019 03:01:53 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@groovy.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@groovy.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@groovy.apache.org Received: (qmail 80704 invoked by uid 99); 1 Feb 2019 03:01:52 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd1-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 01 Feb 2019 03:01:52 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 7AA76C0D61 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 03:01:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd1-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.062 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.062 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=2, KAM_INFOUSMEBIZ=0.75, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URI_HEX=1.313] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd1-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=shaposhnik-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mx1-lw-eu.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd1-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.7]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HJyP6lk11h-T for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 03:01:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qt1-f195.google.com (mail-qt1-f195.google.com [209.85.160.195]) by mx1-lw-eu.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-eu.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 90364610E7 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2019 03:01:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qt1-f195.google.com with SMTP id d19so5926260qtq.9 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 19:01:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=shaposhnik-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Dhigymkkd880/P32IVaPRXYah1X/MnkMEDVSReGeE24=; b=mqFiAHj94Jmee5CHOVnaGcBVSFBBzr4CJp9GI2x9GEJfdrwToz9UkLxx78TWikDmS+ JNK0tzKwJazOyX6qZ7AdW0Mil1cNkcUo9FabINaaAU0Tw0wWwgwYbdf2nae8pAji7+Mo 50/eX+QX1k/PjUaLVsjc7pU19N2GVNpwbpTQpMrM6p8oJM2hcZSgU19QVqIDhbwx+KYE BQHwiGSQlp8Bx9PMxG1TVQkM/FDEhssSgtJ9EZT8k2AJWk0lFiCMxHuo/Baaf5n9CVaj RCx1oLZtDEDN4wVhdxhBFPjcHY0OojVEHHZgX6XiQCGOnZaRWTtcT/b0FaspHxWUfShR uvow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Dhigymkkd880/P32IVaPRXYah1X/MnkMEDVSReGeE24=; b=Uw4eAy2cBrMPjgu/kecWoWnHS9GbwfuEr2RN2qRa6i0vG1QfUUOEv4ldfky3cDVPq7 h16lhsqEoHU9mx0ialcTwI3tg2kOdasFT7NUfY1YO7SnQtJSuk79r/RsheDiDL4kDgai 3JgjxHGotOIkmyUVRg4SuNL5Cvh05eJSqmUPIthAL0k0k3wvhZWT06jfWmU2P7SAJD11 bjp8t4tJJ1vSTTx+9IP2FIGFcVxjPecdm2AMi8tsDRrJSHkrX4kQpBG5pCoGFIYoN5a+ kY/lQOnKtJlHZsUj0bE/2B0w1rwmdspwaArzon57FYSFnODPV//hFOC1gGE7fPyna3GD 6Dhw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukc4O0JTcg5meyoXS3++IcNNC0ER1MJjngnbYLNZiggBhLFozcN3 GAsUDbd/al5c9/O3xSlzylIykroF88XxQAItw5TUjyqH X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7ZqoK/jGHHfHvNHIAhYXrrVrxCCj1iYhvpCa0xGI86Prz4/xTnLEFSr3Oh9wv5fkVU6sCr0i0kD3visaTocAA= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:93e2:: with SMTP id g31mr35002991qvg.194.1548990107498; Thu, 31 Jan 2019 19:01:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1547082294594-0.post@n5.nabble.com> In-Reply-To: From: Roman Shaposhnik Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2019 19:01:32 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community To: dev@groovy.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001e3d280580cc5d8b" --0000000000001e3d280580cc5d8b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 5:48 AM Jennifer Strater wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Was there a response from the Apache foundation? And as always, just let > me know if I can help. > What kind of a response are you looking for? Thanks, Roman. > > Best, > Jenn > > On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:35 AM Marcin Erdmann > wrote: > >> Given that I have no association with ASF nor am I a PMC member or a >> committer I would be happy to take ownership of running the collective i= f >> that helps. Of course only after we figure out how to actually set it up >> and run it without violating anything. >> >> Marcin >> >> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 8:20 AM C=C3=A9dric Champeau < >> cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As = a >>> Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say. >>> >>> First, it's not very different to have one company paying one developer >>> full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it is to have = a >>> collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of integration is the same:= we, >>> as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is followed and that no entit= y is >>> coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have PMC member= s >>> from different companies. Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the A= SF. >>> As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permissi= on >>> from legal. It should also be extremely clear that this collective is n= ot >>> affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is tha= t >>> effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective, >>> otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself is >>> looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a specific >>> project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we all benefit >>> from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any other >>> project). So it's clear to be that this collective must not be affiliat= ed >>> to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for developing Groovy, feel free= to >>> do it, but it should never mention that it's an Apache thing. This can = make >>> it rather complicated with open collective as it requires a GitHub >>> repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use >>> `apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an old >>> repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are >>> respected by preventing you to use this repository. >>> >>> Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it >>> which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership. >>> >>> >>> Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 =C3=A0 02:05, Daniel.Sun a = =C3=A9crit : >>> >>>> My pleasure :-) >>>> >>>> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to encoura= ge >>>> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on Groo= vy >>>> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to >>>> earn >>>> additional money for some reason. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Daniel.Sun >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Apache Groovy committer >>>> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me >>>> Twitter: @daniel_sun >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html >>>> >>> --0000000000001e3d280580cc5d8b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 5:48 AM Jennifer = Strater <jenn.strater@gmail.co= m> wrote:
Hi every= one,

Was there a response from the Apache foundati= on?=C2=A0 And as always, just let me know if I can help.
<= /blockquote>

What kind of a response are you looking for= ?

Thanks,
Roman.
=C2=A0
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

Best,
Jenn

On Thu, Jan 10= , 2019 at 10:35 AM Marcin Erdmann <marcin.erdmann@proxerd.pl> wrote:
Given that I have no association with ASF nor am I a PMC member o= r a committer I would be happy to take ownership of running the collective = if that helps. Of course only after we figure out how to actually set it up= and run it without violating anything.=C2=A0

Marc= in

On Thu, Jan 10, 201= 9 at 8:20 AM C=C3=A9dric Champeau <cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wrote:
My= 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As a Groo= vy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.
=
First, it's not very different to have one company payin= g one developer full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it= is to have a collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of inte= gration is the same: we, as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is follo= wed and that no entity is coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why= we try to have PMC members from different companies. Second, Groovy is a b= rand name owned by the ASF. As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy= " without asking for permission from legal. It should also be extremel= y clear that this collective is not affiliated with the ASF in any way. The= best way for me to do it is that effectively no PMC member, and no committ= er is part of the collective, otherwise there's a conflict of interest.= Especially, the ASF itself is looking for donations, and donations MUST NO= T be directed at a specific project. There are good reasons for this (in pa= rticular, we all benefit from the same infrastructure, the same member affi= liation, as any other project). So it's clear to be that this collectiv= e must not be affiliated to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for develop= ing Groovy, feel free to do it, but it should never mention that it's a= n Apache thing. This can make it rather complicated with open collective as= it requires a GitHub repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed= to use `apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an = old repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are= respected by preventing you to use this repository.

Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it w= hich doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.

<= /div>
Le=C2=A0jeu. 10 janv. = 2019 =C3=A0=C2=A002:05, Daniel.Sun <sunlan@apache.org> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">My pleasure :-)

Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to encourage people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on Groovy during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to earn additional money for some reason.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun




-----
Apache Groovy committer
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
Twitter: @daniel_sun

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