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From MG <mg...@arscreat.com>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community
Date Thu, 10 Jan 2019 23:46:38 GMT
Some thoughts from my side:

 1. Do we know of any other ASF projects who gathers donations ? Would
    be surprising if we were the first to face these questions...
 2. Also wondering if the following would avoid legal pitfalls: Ask for
    donations for "The Groovy Language", an abstract language concept,
    which has as reference implementation "Apache Groovy" on the JVM
    platform ?
 3. If Open Collective is bound to a GitHub repo etc, then  going with a
    Patreon o.s. might be the obvious alternative with looser coupling
    to trademarks.
 4. Another idea would be to sponsor individual developers directly. I
    know my son's (American) football team had something like that for
    their European league level players at some point. I know this does
    not align completely with Daniel's intentions of getting more people
    to actively participate, but since it is very similar to a company
    paying a Groovy developer, it would probably avoid all legal pitfalls.

Cheers,
mg


Am 10.01.2019 um 09:20 schrieb Cédric Champeau:
> My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As 
> a Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.
>
> First, it's not very different to have one company paying one 
> developer full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it 
> is to have a collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of 
> integration is the same: we, as PMC members, must make sure neutrality 
> is followed and that no entity is coercing Groovy for its own needs. 
> That's why we try to have PMC members from different companies. 
> Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the ASF. As such, you should 
> not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission from legal. It 
> should also be extremely clear that this collective is not affiliated 
> with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is that 
> effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective, 
> otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself 
> is looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a 
> specific project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we 
> all benefit from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, 
> as any other project). So it's clear to be that this collective must 
> not be affiliated to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for 
> developing Groovy, feel free to do it, but it should never mention 
> that it's an Apache thing. This can make it rather complicated with 
> open collective as it requires a GitHub repository with stars. I feel 
> you will NOT be allowed to use `apache/groovy` for the reasons I 
> described. `groovy/groovy` is an old repo, and in any case, the ASF 
> may want to make sure its trademarks are respected by preventing you 
> to use this repository.
>
> Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it 
> which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.
>
>
> Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun <sunlan@apache.org 
> <mailto:sunlan@apache.org>> a écrit :
>
>     My pleasure :-)
>
>     Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to
>     encourage
>     people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on
>     Groovy
>     during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want
>     to earn
>     additional money for some reason.
>
>     Cheers,
>     Daniel.Sun
>
>
>
>
>     -----
>     Apache Groovy committer
>     Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
>     Twitter: @daniel_sun
>
>     --
>     Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>


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