From dev-return-4661-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@groovy.apache.org Fri May 4 15:31:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id D5552180634 for ; Fri, 4 May 2018 15:31:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 47837 invoked by uid 500); 4 May 2018 13:31:15 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@groovy.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@groovy.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@groovy.apache.org Received: (qmail 47823 invoked by uid 99); 4 May 2018 13:31:15 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd3-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 04 May 2018 13:31:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd3-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd3-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id CE9B41807EC for ; Fri, 4 May 2018 13:31:14 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd3-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.313 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.313 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URI_HEX=1.313] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd3-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=asert-com-au.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mx1-lw-us.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd3-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.10]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CJ93-bFpninX for ; Fri, 4 May 2018 13:31:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ot0-f181.google.com (mail-ot0-f181.google.com [74.125.82.181]) by mx1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPS id BB0DF5F1B4 for ; Fri, 4 May 2018 13:31:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot0-f181.google.com with SMTP id l13-v6so24467222otk.9 for ; Fri, 04 May 2018 06:31:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=asert-com-au.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=n1sXWDTDNx0ck9mCI/j3RYdidWcFeMNw2HcLzGxMHMA=; b=GvXrRXpVamVlEsSUAdnoWiuRDU2hoYi4xZTNEY8mwg3aHZ9Y3nlnLJPUJsXvNMBON3 MyeE/G+qyv0+8qXt0QWwtBD2gOS/OsFzLWcwjMFqi+vbMjEgx91FdNAywJ3pokJYqP0b cFV6fVakCes2uT4p/1tmdfFWm+cxh5kO3eXz1fnxqa+MY7C5ZO7EOCSVEzMYPzMsYNRm lSCK4aWASFU2o+BOTA8w5ZFyu9fbfi+2/RjZQQ8ESbRuZCKYDHgE9nZGnW2MxOYNsuxz c7Y++A/7K0mT9ab+5a8UtZ7CbnZRGXEsQ5dFV0hDAguqQ86gdkWn1IZKpGTYaCMXTaa/ Xb3g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=n1sXWDTDNx0ck9mCI/j3RYdidWcFeMNw2HcLzGxMHMA=; b=F0tNcmXY9k+0tGnhtVoEr124mfiA3pgsTL17ExYVc0xCD+YfFNYmvWeMgy+kAhVw1h SLeY5yPZfw5Axxic0fcB8y3dPPG3S52Ra2H+JSQIfiPJgzKpRjbgUMT0DFrjMT6et2j9 lZmT3+lGzGDxxXDuLGhb+8JtiO7Kwg9mJJZWUDCjeK2KHDLSNe7jxlgHTjwqSOFQqKIu yn8KQ3vThGImNVxtmOf55qpvyfCfr38rM0iyouYGAc0C+s8plr3OJTX1RsBaB6ktZOIJ z06ZWbmzbvwN5xe015WUEAZ32ckecOdjlLalrrYa6o15px3HijtwRZbN9bE9lDvrs92L bWFA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tCNWGyVWxz/XAxRH/dVqpMJiw7JILcVSbg6qWshkTC2fB9Lsyci Tch8K82XkRl7U5HU12kDnVASt2TSpdB14sY2IGI3Iw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZpK2FcBpO387ZB0TWSgTgjE3/StBSl+kC9MCrpX/DsPcwnZhtMFfmBHFLtGp6kM+6lDg2nKM2sOwXcU9hNiIVs= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:4d0a:: with SMTP id n10-v6mr20208352otf.306.1525440671734; Fri, 04 May 2018 06:31:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.74.165.209 with HTTP; Fri, 4 May 2018 06:31:11 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: paulk@asert.com.au In-Reply-To: <5aec5a59.1c69fb81.67054.5e31SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> References: <1525397914466-0.post@n5.nabble.com> <5aec5a59.1c69fb81.67054.5e31SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> From: Paul King Date: Fri, 4 May 2018 23:31:11 +1000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [VOTE] Support Java-like array To: dev@groovy.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005d8df4056b6155aa" --0000000000005d8df4056b6155aa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would keep discussions about warnings in a separate thread so as not to derail the main topic here. If they were already widely used, it would be fine to indicate that we should just add another one. But that isn't the case and we'd need many discussions to do the topic justice. Cheers, Paul. On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 11:04 PM, mg wrote: > +1 with all that Paul says. Plus, we should support emitting a "Java > compatibility / non-idiomatic-Groovy" warning here, to avoid people using > this "for Java compatibility / quick/easy copy & paste porting of Java > code"-only syntax when writing actual Groovy code (surprisingly not all > developers read the complete documentation of a language, before they sta= rt > using it, especially for something as base line as literal array syntax := -) > ). > > With regards to Jochen's critique of warnings in general: I absolutely > agree that too many / too picky warnings are bad. But obviously we cannot > use an error here instead, so if we want to keep this syntax in the corne= r > it belongs, warning about its use looks like the only option that would > consistently work in practice to me... > (same as potentially for Java lambda syntax, depending on whether one wil= l > be able to use 100% equivalent & concise Groovy closure syntax here > instead). > > Cheers, > mg > > > -------- Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht -------- > Von: "Daniel.Sun" > Datum: 04.05.18 03:38 (GMT+01:00) > An: dev@groovy.incubator.apache.org > Betreff: [VOTE] Support Java-like array > > Dear development community, > > In order to improve Groovy's compatibility with Java(Copy & Paste) a= nd > make Groovy more friendly to Java developers[1], I propose to support > Java-like array[2][3] and start the VOTE thread for supporting Java-like > array. > > Please vote on supporting Java-like array since Apache Groovy 3.0.0. > > Here are the poll results from twitter and user mailing list for you= r > reference: > > Sum up the poll results > 24 votes in total(including my +1) > 15 +1 (62.5%) > 9 0 (37.5%) > 0 -1 ( 0.0%) > > Twitter[4] > 19 votes in total(not including my +1) > 58% +1, > 42% 0, > 0% -1 > > User mailing list( > http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Poll-About-supporting-Java-like-array- > tt5749923.html > ) > 4 votes in total(not including my +1) > 3 +1, > 1 0, > 0 -1 > > The vote is open for the next 72 hours and passes if a majority of at lea= st > three +1 PMC votes are cast. > > [ ] +1 Support Java-like array > [ ] 0 I don't have a strong opinion about this, but I assume it's ok > [ ] -1 Do not support Java-like array because... > > Here is my vote: > > +1 > > Cheers, > Daniel.Sun > [1] http://groovy-lang.org/differences.html > [2] https://github.com/apache/groovy/pull/691 > [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GROOVY-8561 > [4] https://twitter.com/daniel_sun/status/990544485196091395 > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html > --0000000000005d8df4056b6155aa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would keep discussions about warnings in a separate thre= ad so as not to derail the main topic here. If they were already widely use= d, it would be fine to indicate that we should just add another one. But th= at isn't the case and we'd need many discussions to do the topic ju= stice.

Cheers, Paul.

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 11:04 PM, mg <mg= biz@arscreat.com> wrote:
+1 with all that Paul says. Plus, we should support emitting a "Jav= a compatibility / non-idiomatic-Groovy" warning here, to avoid people = using this "for Java compatibility / quick/easy copy & paste porti= ng of Java code"-only syntax when writing actual Groovy code (surprisi= ngly not all developers read the complete documentation of a language, befo= re they start using it, especially for something as base line as literal ar= ray syntax :-) ).

With regards to Jochen's cr= itique of warnings in general: I absolutely agree that too many / too picky= warnings are bad. But obviously we cannot use an error here instead, so if= we want to keep this syntax in the corner it belongs, warning about its us= e looks like the only option that would consistently work in practice to me= ...
(same as potentially for Java lambda syntax, dep= ending on whether one will be able to use 100% equivalent & concise Gro= ovy closure syntax here instead).

Cheers,
mg

=
-------- Urspr= =C3=BCngliche Nachricht --------
Von: "Daniel.Sun" <= sunlan@apache.org>
Betreff: [VOTE] Support Java-like ar= ray

Dear development comm= unity,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 In order to improve Groovy's com= patibility with Java(Copy & Paste) and
make Groovy more friendly to = Java developers[1], I propose to support
Java-like array[2][3] and start= the VOTE thread for supporting Java-like
array.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Please vote on supporting Java-like array since Apache Groovy 3.0= .0.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Here are the poll results from twitter = and user mailing list for your
reference:

Sum up the poll results=
24 votes in total(including my +1)
15 +1 (62.5%)
9=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 0 (37.5%)
0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -1 (=C2=A0 0.0%)

Twitter[= 4]
19 votes in total(not including my +1)
58% +1,
42%=C2=A0=C2=A0= 0,
0%=C2=A0=C2=A0 -1

User mailing list(
http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Poll-About= -supporting-Java-like-array-tt5749923.html
)
4 votes in= total(not including my +1)
3=C2=A0 +1,
1=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 0,
0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 -1

The vote is open for the next 72 hours and passes if= a majority of at least
three +1 PMC votes are cast.

[ ] +1 Suppo= rt Java-like array
[ ]=C2=A0 0 I don't have a strong opinion about t= his, but I assume it's ok
[ ] -1 Do not support Java-like array beca= use...

Here is my vote:

+1

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun
[1= ] htt= p://groovy-lang.org/differences.html
[2] https://github.com/apache= /groovy/pull/691
[3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/b= rowse/GROOVY-8561
[4] https://twitter.com/daniel_su= n/status/990544485196091395





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