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From Paul King <pa...@asert.com.au>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Support Java-like array
Date Mon, 07 May 2018 19:21:37 GMT
I would like to see some more PMC votes for this proposal.

On the one hand we don't like changes that aren't vetted enough, yet here
is a proposed change that:
* is fairly comprehensive (just lacking some doco which I have already
identified)
* closes some gaps in one of Groovy's design goals of making it easy to
bring Java code to Groovy
* has sought feedback from dev and user communities (and seems to have
strong support from our user base)

And yet, I am the only one from the PMC who has voted. I don't really care
if the votes
are critical and provide a good reason but at least then it shows respect
for the time and
energy put in to preparing a considered proposal and requesting formal
feedback.
I know everyone is super busy but we just aren't a big enough PMC right now
for
everyone to sit on the fence for proposals like this.

While I don't think we need to mirror everything in Java and I don't
personally think I will
use this feature often in my own code, I can certainly see how new users to
Groovy would
find it useful and so it seems like an overall win from my point of view.
Zero-learning curve
from Java is one of the attractions of Groovy when marketing the language.
This seems to
offer a bit of an improvement in that space with low investment and low
risk.

If others can see serious flaws though, it would be good to provide the
feedback so Daniel
can make some progress. Or if someone can see better bang-for-buck changes
that we
should be making from a marketing of the language perspective, it would be
good to pass
those insights on so Daniel and other contributors can make best use of
their time.


Cheers, Paul.


On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 11:31 PM, Paul King <paulk@asert.com.au> wrote:

> I would keep discussions about warnings in a separate thread so as not to
> derail the main topic here. If they were already widely used, it would be
> fine to indicate that we should just add another one. But that isn't the
> case and we'd need many discussions to do the topic justice.
>
> Cheers, Paul.
>
> On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 11:04 PM, mg <mgbiz@arscreat.com> wrote:
>
>> +1 with all that Paul says. Plus, we should support emitting a "Java
>> compatibility / non-idiomatic-Groovy" warning here, to avoid people using
>> this "for Java compatibility / quick/easy copy & paste porting of Java
>> code"-only syntax when writing actual Groovy code (surprisingly not all
>> developers read the complete documentation of a language, before they start
>> using it, especially for something as base line as literal array syntax :-)
>> ).
>>
>> With regards to Jochen's critique of warnings in general: I absolutely
>> agree that too many / too picky warnings are bad. But obviously we cannot
>> use an error here instead, so if we want to keep this syntax in the corner
>> it belongs, warning about its use looks like the only option that would
>> consistently work in practice to me...
>> (same as potentially for Java lambda syntax, depending on whether one
>> will be able to use 100% equivalent & concise Groovy closure syntax here
>> instead).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> mg
>>
>>
>> -------- Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht --------
>> Von: "Daniel.Sun" <sunlan@apache.org>
>> Datum: 04.05.18 03:38 (GMT+01:00)
>> An: dev@groovy.incubator.apache.org
>> Betreff: [VOTE] Support Java-like array
>>
>> Dear development community,
>>
>>      In order to improve Groovy's compatibility with Java(Copy & Paste)
>> and
>> make Groovy more friendly to Java developers[1], I propose to support
>> Java-like array[2][3] and start the VOTE thread for supporting Java-like
>> array.
>>
>>      Please vote on supporting Java-like array since Apache Groovy 3.0.0.
>>
>>      Here are the poll results from twitter and user mailing list for your
>> reference:
>>
>> Sum up the poll results
>> 24 votes in total(including my +1)
>> 15 +1 (62.5%)
>> 9     0 (37.5%)
>> 0    -1 (  0.0%)
>>
>> Twitter[4]
>> 19 votes in total(not including my +1)
>> 58% +1,
>> 42%   0,
>> 0%   -1
>>
>> User mailing list(
>> http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Poll-About-supporting-
>> Java-like-array-tt5749923.html
>> )
>> 4 votes in total(not including my +1)
>> 3  +1,
>> 1    0,
>> 0   -1
>>
>> The vote is open for the next 72 hours and passes if a majority of at
>> least
>> three +1 PMC votes are cast.
>>
>> [ ] +1 Support Java-like array
>> [ ]  0 I don't have a strong opinion about this, but I assume it's ok
>> [ ] -1 Do not support Java-like array because...
>>
>> Here is my vote:
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel.Sun
>> [1] http://groovy-lang.org/differences.html
>> [2] https://github.com/apache/groovy/pull/691
>> [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GROOVY-8561
>> [4] https://twitter.com/daniel_sun/status/990544485196091395
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>>
>
>

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