Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public-internal@cust-asf2.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public-internal@cust-asf2.ponee.io Received: from cust-asf.ponee.io (cust-asf.ponee.io [163.172.22.183]) by cust-asf2.ponee.io (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5A23200C0D for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:52:28 +0100 (CET) Received: by cust-asf.ponee.io (Postfix) id D4493160B52; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:52:28 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by cust-asf.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id A9F76160B46 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:52:27 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 40329 invoked by uid 500); 31 Jan 2017 08:52:26 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@groovy.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@groovy.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@groovy.apache.org Received: (qmail 40319 invoked by uid 99); 31 Jan 2017 08:52:26 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd1-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:52:26 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 25BFFC0BFA for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:52:26 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd1-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.179 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.179 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd1-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-lw-eu.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd1-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.7]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cyrzgT2BtRZ1 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:52:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lf0-f50.google.com (mail-lf0-f50.google.com [209.85.215.50]) by mx1-lw-eu.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-eu.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 4A75C5F253 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:52:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lf0-f50.google.com with SMTP id v186so207694801lfa.1 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 00:52:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=l+PIl93QqfxpUZA4KSWVxuWnI31hGpx/Wc0TU9JFPE0=; b=LYrjhrR+ezybfGUd71yZK86/rClqMJ/SLRUiHVvgJpCOajkic6M/+6YjdZ5afRIeP4 vYrjkstcdljhpOfI4ukOHzrJrJA073b+5Ioh7yP6N1anq4kshR+DbpQpJO//Pwg5pB1w 7kGPzPR+lZ14FWaTGiRtHW7zLmXx0jm4vsLabAuNtBw+dGMXK9tc51gJcpGWjYjMPk9/ vzwiy14xYa1Ip1Kt1b8m5RNVjUfd32ev5CJlE+O92d7Js6N/AiRHSo9x0GUCCMJMdRLq 5MYYYox1P9hXaKCPSBcQ31llaCYIq9Gl69KK4Tlmu9SJ90+kvtqeqIWJ0TsfVukbZjUE oCfw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=l+PIl93QqfxpUZA4KSWVxuWnI31hGpx/Wc0TU9JFPE0=; b=t7pctSfgk/ifMoJdAgkN54LM9rv24bbo0pto8vVwcW/Y9GZLRgIZwD318tEJosUGnC tK1R97WMknSFRpU7IRAkl/JERJ1qYzINbuQZAEramCs8DYtWt9KTX7T4Na2LGlcG1yOc L9KFiblxUfLwQpYS8zhzR3lsDmJB6r3JCmNsbbM2sDhOlbVX5XKhq0aRFqXrJCZBtE3g nn2UxHObt73zbNSYW6zTjuqUjU49xZ6+SEkcSaoPu7HRlOvrWskQuQSfxMQ4S6Iiqhuv j6lN1BwJNAwBMcaMLS9zsN23Qy6wjizxdW4YJtoku1bjKaAFkgp0gq+xv/3fajqa8U0X BeQA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXLZLShBhGvlxU9b0GN1SpM99xJT75N2+vmy9d3Pw2AaHdTUlxChBKlBUHUh7/e1JuENtjlVJNmK8z6bqw== X-Received: by 10.46.71.132 with SMTP id u126mr9054782lja.43.1485852743515; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 00:52:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.76.68 with HTTP; Tue, 31 Jan 2017 00:52:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Andres Almiray Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:52:22 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Groovy Roadmap To: dev@groovy.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113db2faf744350547600ce3 archived-at: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 08:52:29 -0000 --001a113db2faf744350547600ce3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Having Parrot available for immediate testing is the reason why I'd advocate for having 3.0-ea releases ;-) ------------------------------------------- Java Champion; Groovy Enthusiast http://jroller.com/aalmiray http://www.linkedin.com/in/aalmiray -- What goes up, must come down. Ask any system administrator. There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't. To understand recursion, we must first understand recursion. On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:50 AM, S=C3=B8ren Berg Glasius wrote: > YES (not binding). This is a clear plan, and is easy to understand for th= e > community. > > It makes way for a 2.5 soon, and it also puts Parrot in a release that is > not too far into the future, which IMO is important. > > IMO a good plan. > > On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 at 09:45 C=C3=A9dric Champeau = wrote: > >> YES for me too (forgot to answer :D). And yes, we should review (and >> merge) your PR before beta-1. >> >> 2017-01-31 <20%2017%2001%2031> 9:44 GMT+01:00 Sergei Egorov < >> bsideup@gmail.com>: >> >> YES from me. >> >> Would be great if we can deliver #1 as a macro method, not it form of >> "MacroGroovy" (and hopefully forget this awkward name collision :D ) >> >> Just want to remind that there is a PR waiting for a review where I >> rewrote it and implemented basic macro methods support: >> https://github.com/apache/groovy/pull/472/files >> >> >> BR, >> Sergei >> >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 10:37 AM C=C3=A9dric Champeau >> wrote: >> >> Hi guys, >> >> There are multiple conversations going on for weeks, and I think they ar= e >> going nowhere. We could discuss for months what's the best plan for Groo= vy, >> without releasing anything. Here are the challenges that are waiting for= us: >> >> 1. release a version of Groovy that integrates Groovy macros >> 2. upgrade the minimal runtime required for Groovy to 1.7, which is >> required to smoothly transition to higher requirements (and also, make o= ur >> devs lives easier) >> 3. upgrade the minimal runtime required for Groovy to 1.8, allowing us t= o >> drop the old call site caching and use indy Groovy everywhere >> 4. integrate Parrot, which replaces the use of Antlr2 with Antlr4 >> 5. compatibility with Jigsaw, aka "Groovy as a module" >> >> I would like to propose the following plan: >> >> - Groovy 2.5: integrates 1 and 2, to be released ASAP, we've been waitin= g >> for this for too long >> - Groovy 2.6: integrate 4, implying backporting Parrot to Java 7 >> - Groovy 3.0: integrate 3 and 5. The only version with necessary breakin= g >> changes (we have no choice here) >> >> This plan is, I think, a good compromise for all the requirements we >> have: backwards compatibility, and making progress and not having too ma= ny >> branches. An alternative would be to keep Parrot on Java 8, but as some = of >> us have said, this is incompatible with a soonish release. The drawback = is >> that Parrot has the risk of being a breaking change (it is, typically if >> people implicitly depend on the old parser, which would be bad), so ther= e's >> a risk of not following semantic versioning. >> >> - [ ] YES, I approve the roadmap above >> - [ ] NO, I do not approve the roadmap abobe beause... >> - [ ] I don't mind, or this goes beyond what I can think of >> >> This vote is open for 72h, ending 9:30am CET, on Feb 3rd, 2017. >> >> >> -- > Best regards / Med venlig hilsen, > S=C3=B8ren Berg Glasius > > Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark > Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88 <+45%2040%2044%2091%2088>, Skype: sbglasius > --- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes. > --001a113db2faf744350547600ce3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Having Parrot available for immediate testing is the reaso= n why I'd advocate for having 3.0-ea releases ;-)

-------------------------------------------
Java = Champion; Groovy Enthusiast
http://jroller.com/aalmiray
http://www.linkedin.com/in/aalmiray=
--
What goes up, must come down. Ask any system administrator.There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, a= nd those who don't.
To understand recursion, we must first understan= d recursion.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:50 AM, S=C3=B8ren = Berg Glasius <soeren@glasius.dk> wrote:
YES (not binding). This is a clear plan, and= is easy to understand for the community.=C2=A0

It makes= way for a 2.5 soon, and it also puts Parrot in a release that is not too f= ar into the future, which IMO is important.=C2=A0

= IMO a good plan.

On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 at 09:45 C=C3= =A9dric Champeau <cchampeau@apache.org> wrote:
YES for me t= oo (forgot to answer :D). And yes, we should review (and merge) your PR bef= ore beta-1.
=
2017-01= -31 9:44 GMT+01:00 Sergei Egorov <bsideup@gmail.com>:
YES from m= e.

Would be great if we can deliver #1 as a macro method, not it form of &quo= t;MacroGroovy" (and hopefully forget this awkward name collision :D )<= /div>

Ju= st want to remind that there is a PR waiting for a review where I rewrote i= t and implemented basic macro methods support:
https://github.com/apache/groovy/= pull/472/files


BR,
Sergei

On Tue, Jan 31, 201= 7 at 10:37 AM C=C3=A9dric Champeau <cchampeau@ap= ache.org> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote m_8270940681293377734gmail_msg" style=3D"ma= rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi guys,

There are multiple conversations g= oing on for weeks, and I think they are going nowhere. We could discuss for= months what's the best plan for Groovy, without releasing anything. He= re are the challenges that are waiting for us:

1. release a version of Groovy th= at integrates Groovy macros
2. upgrade the minimal runtime required for Groovy to 1.7, which is requ= ired to smoothly transition to higher requirements (and also, make our devs= lives easier)
3. upgrade= the minimal runtime required for Groovy to 1.8, allowing us to drop the ol= d call site caching and use indy Groovy everywhere
4. integrate Parrot, which replaces the use of An= tlr2 with Antlr4
5. compa= tibility with Jigsaw, aka "Groovy as a module"

I would like to propose= the following plan:

- Groovy 2.5: integrates 1 and 2, to be released ASAP, we&#= 39;ve been waiting for this for too long
- Groovy 2.6: integrate 4, implying backporting Parrot to J= ava 7
- Groovy 3.0: integ= rate 3 and 5. The only version with necessary breaking changes (we have no = choice here)

This plan is, I think, a good compromise for all the requirements w= e have: backwards compatibility, and making progress and not having too man= y branches. An alternative would be to keep Parrot on Java 8, but as some o= f us have said, this is incompatible with a soonish release. The drawback i= s that Parrot has the risk of being a breaking change (it is, typically if = people implicitly depend on the old parser, which would be bad), so there&#= 39;s a risk of not following semantic versioning.

=
- [ ] YES, I approve the roadm= ap above
- [ ] NO, I do n= ot approve the roadmap abobe beause...
- [ ] I don't mind, or this goes beyond what I can think = of

Th= is vote is open for 72h, ending 9:30am CET, on Feb 3rd, 2017.


--
Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
S=C3=B8ren = Berg Glasius

Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark<= /div>
Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88, Skype: sbglasius
--- = Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.

--001a113db2faf744350547600ce3--