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From Jochen Theodorou <blackd...@gmx.org>
Subject Re: Custom operator for Groovy 3
Date Sun, 30 Oct 2016 19:21:34 GMT
On 30.10.2016 18:43, Russel Winder wrote:
> On Sun, 2016-10-30 at 10:06 +0100, C├ędric Champeau wrote:
>> I'm -1 on adding custom operators. We always said we wouldn't fall
>> into the
>> same trap as C++ or Scala, but instead allow overriding existing
>> operators.
>
> I like custom operators as in Algol-68 and Scala. It is just that some
> Scala codes take things too far, showing a lack of self-restraint, and
> inability to read. This however is not a reason to abandon the idea.
> Consider that C++ and Python both restrict the overloading to the
> operators known to the compiler. Note that Java removed this because it
> was too hard for programmers to understand. Note that Groovy has
> reintroduced this because programmers wanted it. Also that Scala and
> Kotlin have followed suit and/or gone further.
>
> There is a balance between condescension and authoritarianism (which a
> number of programming languages are now following) and leaving it to
> the programmer to do the right thing at the risk of them not, but it is
> their problem.  I am not a fan of condescending authoritarianism.

I think the biggest mistake is to allow the general overloading of "=". 
Be it with some automated type coercion or another user over-writable 
mechanism. We have to some extend for assignment to Boolean with 
asBoolean, but not in general and not specialized for "=", especially 
not for arbitrary types. I think it was a big mistake for Scala to 
introduce something like this. It makes DSLs nicer, yes, but it makes it 
incredibly difficult for the programmer to follow the program flow.

So if we add custom operators, we should ensure they fit in the general 
program flow

bye Jochen

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