Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-groovy-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-groovy-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 796E91883A for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 18:11:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 36226 invoked by uid 500); 13 Mar 2016 18:11:56 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-groovy-dev-archive@groovy.apache.org Received: (qmail 36186 invoked by uid 500); 13 Mar 2016 18:11:56 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@groovy.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@groovy.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@groovy.apache.org Received: (qmail 36176 invoked by uid 99); 13 Mar 2016 18:11:55 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd3-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 18:11:55 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd3-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd3-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 68345180315 for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 18:11:55 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd3-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.179 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.179 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd3-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-lw-us.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd3-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.10]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P9cZ-ohE0PbN for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 18:11:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lb0-f178.google.com (mail-lb0-f178.google.com [209.85.217.178]) by mx1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 50FDB5FB5F for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 18:11:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lb0-f178.google.com with SMTP id x1so212757258lbj.3 for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 11:11:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=TbEOMjhFBMqHwHGJUcn9svbz+K3hZHROwgRfctDtECg=; b=zwOIKpIpLjnVCUM5oK3PzJV3bqtg5BSskUSvvvqKg/qJPC7bvYHNcS/mm9ai/Yv0is SufnRMLvaVXD2uZS61itHDYVjHcEuSuMK3K5qPd1LLugNg/DDurWaj4DWMZuEVB0rOJ9 rlvdJwpW7dTbeOelrLI8fwyc2Trwvn0cTVYTZoBP3TXEPKCbUiQ914r5ee6U5zscMOHv sHGIGgasgrOXEz1VF+ZDXk/AFkqqGiKXMKxvRtDmsEkf+Zqar1Fz8wF/F68LkJylA3t5 /HPJcClnobGNlDgzPSrqODloDuv7taDHsgpFdsCS+MEtc33ZrST4Wt6dtp9uqRJFahFb 85+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to; bh=TbEOMjhFBMqHwHGJUcn9svbz+K3hZHROwgRfctDtECg=; b=iWigRAqcCrGdVoRH/Yc98k2l3kjz43ujQNPHmrGraPZLOcedzUR5aFLEhmmbptt2jA QI0P8XYwR/mRY8WZGdKARjG8+MpsVLFY1flsC+IVvEl/Oim2wZnER2Lr6s1vuic8P4ff ysyUhV8pAh39hj390GUulDV17E7wmzjO1FtXvkGKeNvu+G+B4kZqhTq6ihVZxwNfhlBL vO5w1bplpJMiN/adpGLAFlSVXIDUQ8J4/jgsEW0kqR/0li+DMHl6lg70zf5Ns86Ap10a vHAtH+jnAayX47IyM+Lgj7NkSdy1XODSY4KDJS0CDQaJVPwbB/zsKrgqTwsx0Jv5HhBZ C+qg== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJ8CbJdayhENbpsGuavzlFsUlSnBv/v/kv6LXiwUu4wHhQ0wTzkWlM5lPwdgw69o5W9iP43U9Q8TvgijA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.89.201 with SMTP id n192mr6435297lfb.69.1457892705291; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 11:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.142.38 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 11:11:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <56DBFA6D.8030004@gmx.net> <96C5BE75-63F1-4895-825D-5CCCA0365540@cs.vassar.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 19:11:45 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Release 2.5 Beta? From: =?UTF-8?Q?C=C3=A9dric_Champeau?= To: dev@groovy.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11412a20d1d559052df218ba --001a11412a20d1d559052df218ba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Of course there are tests, but it's unlikely people will test a feature if they have to look at unit tests to understand what it does. 2016-03-13 18:18 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Laforge : > Aren't there any unit tests to point people to? > > On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 6:17 PM, C=C3=A9dric Champeau < > cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The problem is how to get feedback if the feature is not documented? >> >> 2016-03-13 18:13 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Laforge : >> >>> For a beta, I think it can be okay, but for the final release of 2.5, >>> documentation will be of course mandatory, and we can't release it with= out >>> that documentation. As I often say, a feature which is not documented >>> doesn't exist! >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Shil Sinha >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I think it's a bit of a problem, still, when it's really that >>>>> particular feature which is in beta, and that we'll want users to tes= t. >>>>> Without knowing it's there and how to use it it's going to be hard to= have >>>>> feedback. >>>> >>>> >>>> Agreed, it would be strange to not have any documentation for the foca= l >>>> point of a release. Are there any external references which we could d= irect >>>> users to? Not from within the repo itself, but when promoting the rele= ase >>>> elsewhere e.g. Twitter. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 8:49 AM, C=C3=A9dric Champeau < >>>> cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> So does everyone agree that we should release the beta even if it's >>>>> missing docs for macros? I think it's a bit of a problem, still, when= it's >>>>> really that particular feature which is in beta, and that we'll want = users >>>>> to test. Without knowing it's there and how to use it it's going to b= e hard >>>>> to have feedback. >>>>> >>>>> 2016-03-13 0:56 GMT+01:00 Suderman Keith : >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 12, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Guillaume Laforge >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Let's go with mushroom, for a change :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> +1 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 5:32 PM, C=C3=A9dric Champeau < >>>>>> cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2016-03-12 0:05 GMT+01:00 Nicholas Grealy : >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Looks like it's just you and me, Pascal! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just some questions for the broader dev community: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Who can perform the release? - C=C3=A9dric looked like he sin= gle >>>>>>>> handedly pushed out version 2.4.6 - can we ask him to prepare t= he 2.5 beta >>>>>>>> release? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Until we've switched to a new release process, it's still easier if >>>>>>> I do it, yes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> - Is there anything outstanding for a 2.5 beta release? - >>>>>>>> Whoever's we're waiting on, can we get an update? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are lots of outstanding issues, that's why it's a beta. In >>>>>>> particular, the new (exciting!) macro stuff is not documented, nor = the AST >>>>>>> matcher complete. It's a super nice feature that deserves polishing= . Plus, >>>>>>> there are some decisions to be made with regards to applying the gl= obal >>>>>>> `macro` AST xform globally or not, in particular with groovy-all. W= e can >>>>>>> solve this after the beta, for sure, but we need to think about it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> - Do we need a VOTE thread for a beta release? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, it's a release. We can call it "beta", "rc" or "mushroom", it'= s >>>>>>> a release anyway :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>>> Nick >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2016 at 22:52 Nicholas Grealy >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Mar 2016 20:37 Pascal Schumacher < >>>>>>>>> pascalschumacher@gmx.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello everybody, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> as far as I remember there was wide support for releasing a 2.5 >>>>>>>>>> beta in >>>>>>>>>> the "Release 2.4.6 and 2.5.0-beta?" discussion. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The release announcement for 2.4.6 contained the sentence "... b= e >>>>>>>>>> prepared for a 2.5.0-beta release soon!". Tomorrow that will be >>>>>>>>>> two >>>>>>>>>> weeks ago, so I think we should make some plans when we start th= e >>>>>>>>>> release vote and who will be able to serve as a release manager. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What do you think? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>> Pascal >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Guillaume Laforge >>>>>> Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President >>>>>> Product Ninja & Advocate at Restlet >>>>>> >>>>>> Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/ >>>>>> Social: @glaforge / Google+ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> Research Associate >>>>>> Department of Computer Science >>>>>> Vassar College >>>>>> Poughkeepsie, NY >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Guillaume Laforge >>> Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President >>> Product Ninja & Advocate at Restlet >>> >>> Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/ >>> Social: @glaforge / Google+ >>> >>> >> >> > > > -- > Guillaume Laforge > Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President > Product Ninja & Advocate at Restlet > > Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/ > Social: @glaforge / Google+ > > --001a11412a20d1d559052df218ba Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Of course there are tests, but it's unlikely people wi= ll test a feature if they have to look at unit tests to understand what it = does.

2016-0= 3-13 18:18 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Laforge <glaforge@gmail.com>= :
Aren't there any u= nit tests to point people to?
=

On Sun, Mar 13, 2= 016 at 6:17 PM, C=C3=A9dric Champeau <cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wrote:
The = problem is how to get feedback if the feature is not documented?
=

2016-03-13 1= 8:13 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Laforge <glaforge@gmail.com>:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
For a beta, I think it can b= e okay, but for the final release of 2.5, documentation will be of course m= andatory, and we can't release it without that documentation. As I ofte= n say, a feature which is not documented doesn't exist!
=

On Sun, Mar 13, 2= 016 at 5:52 PM, Shil Sinha <shil.sinha@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
= I think it's a bit of a problem, still= , when it's really that particular feature which is in beta, and that w= e'll want users to test. Without knowing it's there and how to use = it it's going to be hard to have feedback.

=
Agreed, it would be strange to not have any documentation= for the focal point of a release. Are there any external references which = we could direct users to? Not from within the repo itself, but when promoti= ng the release elsewhere e.g. Twitter.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 8:49 AM,= C=C3=A9dric Champeau <cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wr= ote:
So does everyone ag= ree that we should release the beta even if it's missing docs for macro= s? I think it's a bit of a problem, still, when it's really that pa= rticular feature which is in beta, and that we'll want users to test. W= ithout knowing it's there and how to use it it's going to be hard t= o have feedback.

2016-03-13 0:56 GMT+01:00 Suderman Keith <suderman@c= s.vassar.edu>:

On = Mar 12, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Guillaume Laforge <glaforge@gmail.com> wrote:

Let's go with mushroom, for a change :-)

+1


On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 5:32 PM, C=C3=A9dric Champeau &= lt;cedric.ch= ampeau@gmail.com> wrote:


2016-03-12 0:05 GMT+01:00 Nicholas Grealy <nickgrealy@gmail.com= >:
Lo= oks like it's just you and me, Pascal!

Just so= me questions for the broader dev community:
  • Who can perform the release? -=C2=A0C=C3=A9dric looked= like he single handedly pushed out version 2.4.6 - can we ask him to prepa= re the 2.5 beta release?

Until we've switched to a new release process, it's still = easier if I do it, yes.
=C2=A0
  • I= s there anything outstanding for a 2.5 beta release? - Whoever's we'= ;re waiting on, can we get an update?

There are lots of outstanding issues, that's w= hy it's a beta. In particular, the new (exciting!) macro stuff is not d= ocumented, nor the AST matcher complete. It's a super nice feature that= deserves polishing. Plus, there are some decisions to be made with regards= to applying the global `macro` AST xform globally or not, in particular wi= th groovy-all. We can solve this after the beta, for sure, but we need to t= hink about it.=C2=A0

  • Do we need a VOTE= thread for a beta release?

Yes, it's a release. We can call it "beta", &q= uot;rc" or "mushroom", it's a release anyway :)

Cheers!=C2=A0


Kind regards,
Nick

On Mon, 7 Mar 2016 at 22:52 Nicholas Grealy <nickgrealy@gmail.com> wrote:
=

+1


On Sun, 6 Mar 2016 20:37 Pa= scal Schumacher <pascalschumacher@gmx.net> wrote:
Hello everybody,

as far as I remember there was wide support for releasing a 2.5 beta in
the "Release 2.4.6 and 2.5.0-beta?" discussion.

The release announcement for 2.4.6 contained the sentence "... be
prepared for a 2.5.0-beta release soon!". Tomorrow that will be two weeks ago, so I think we should make some plans when we start the
release vote and who will be able to serve as a release manager.

What do you think?

Cheers,
Pascal




--
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-Pr= esident
Product Ninja & Advocate at Restlet

Blo= g:=C2=A0http://g= laforge.appspot.com/
Social: @glaforge=C2=A0/ Google+
<= /div>

------------------------------
Research Associate
Department of C= omputer Science
Vassar College
Poughkeepsie, NY






--
=
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer &= ; PMC Vice-President
Product Ninja & Advocate at = Restlet




--
=
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer &= ; PMC Vice-President
Product Ninja & Advocate at = Restlet

--001a11412a20d1d559052df218ba--