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From Josh Elser <els...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Leave apache and the incubator
Date Thu, 05 Jul 2018 22:23:35 GMT
I will point out that I've been pointing out the writing on the wall for 
months. This isn't some abrupt action.

On 7/5/18 1:00 PM, chandresh pancholi wrote:
> Before moving it to GitHub, I would say let's give a chance.
> I am moving out from current job and I have plenty of time to contribute
> and promote gossip to forum in india.
> Happy to know your thoughts.
> -1 from me.
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 10:21 PM Josh Elser <elserj@apache.org> wrote:
>> Hey Ed,
>> I think taking Gossip back to Github is the right decision. The
>> Incubator is designed to support, long-running, low-activity projects
>> like you outline. The regular reports on progress become a time-sink
>> because there isn't the expected level of volume or participants.
>> The incubator works well when there is an established community of folks
>> who are active. Like you say, this otherwise becomes a burden on you
>> (the sole contributor, best as I can see), taking your time away from
>> actually producing software.
>> +1 from me
>> On 7/5/18 9:18 AM, Edward Capriolo wrote:
>>> All,
>>> It was a sizable effort moving everything Gossip into the incubator.
>> Thank
>>> you all for your help along the way. Recently activity has slowed down,
>>> much of this falls on me.
>>> My opinion is gossip would be much better off moving back to github and
>> be
>>> independently hosted (by me or someone else) I believe for the following
>>> reasons:
>>> Infrastructure:
>>> AAA
>>> I forgot my password and when I clicked the "FORGOT MY PASSWORD" link I
>> got
>>> back a PGP email. No instructions in the email, lol city. I had to google
>>> around ASFs site to try to figure out what to do. Try googling 'pgp lost
>>> password' on apache's docs and figuring out what you need to do.
>>> Releases:
>>> The release process for most Java projects using maven 'mvn release:clean
>>> && mvn release:prepare && mvn release:perform". Hosting is free
and sign
>> up
>>> takes less then a day. Apache incubator wants to see releases as a sign
>> of
>>> health, yet the release process is involved. We have to do the maven
>> steps,
>>> generate an email with the checksums of all critical files, post a vote
>> on
>>> the incubator list, release the artifacts to central, and copy them to an
>>> svn directory.
>>> That is a vote across 2 mailing lists. and all the maven steps, and other
>>> manual steps, and that does not even count getting the website changed.
>> For
>>> me what is a 5 minute thing turns into a days long process. The net
>> result
>>> is we have features in trunk not in the release because doing a release
>> is
>>> just a drag. No one is even half interested in taking on this process
>> and I
>>> only did it because it is the only way.
>>> Community:
>>> Apache incubator is about building communities.
>>> Mailing list
>>> The mailing list is fairly opaque to me. I am sure there is some way to
>>> figure out what the subscriber base is but I don't know it.
>>> Jira
>>> Jira is great tool but the implementation slows people down. New users
>> have
>>> to sign up, and they are unable to assign themselves tickets until I
>>> navigate into JIRA and add them to a group. With open source and
>> attracting
>>> contributors it helps to be able to strike while the iron is hot. Having
>>> users confused as to weather they can start on a task does not help with
>>> that.
>>> GIT
>>> Apache has git but not github is only a mirror. When I have to merge
>>> peoples stuff I have to do it by hand with git commands. (No squash and
>>> merge button)
>>> Updating the site:
>>> Another series of obscure svn commands, making simple things hard, (much
>>> like the release process)
>>> Reports
>>> I get an 4-5 emails at different rates titled "Incubator Report Due" at
>>> different rates. Only one of them is for this project. We were never
>> great
>>> with reports. Almost all the info in the report could be automatically
>>> generated. We missed a report, we got placed onto a report now do every
>>> month category.
>>> The last one was due yesterday, sorry I was enjoying a hotdog at a bbq, I
>>> went to fill it out today and, saw yet another email chain on the
>> incubator
>>> list about how Gossip should leave apache. The report is just another
>> huge
>>> time suck, the time I spend doing it I could be doing an hour of code
>>> review.
>>> Even though some things are in the incubator 7 years, and some apache
>> TLPs
>>> have no activity Gossip out of the incubator seems to be a constant thing
>>> for some....
>>> So lets get out of here.

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