It seems like a good idea to me.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <> wrote:
Hi Charles,

as discussed on Karaf, I'm really eager to see the feedback from the Geronimo community.

I would be more than happy to join and help the Geronimo community around the Karaf usage and see what we can do to provide a better Geronimo and Karaf.


On 12/15/2011 10:55 AM, Charles Moulliard wrote:

Within mailing list of Karaf, we have started a discussion about the
idea to have a KarafEE release. This idea is similar to the reflection
that OpenEJB team has had with TomEE but using Tomcat as Java
Application Server. As Geronimo uses Karaf as their kernel (which is
not the case for Glassfish, JBoss, Eclipse Virgo, ...) that makes a
lot of sense that we continue to promote karaf as platform not only
for Integration Server like ServiceMix but also for J2EE platform.
Since EJB3 spec and CDI, we see more and more projects interested to
have/use an EJB container on Karaf and use it as an alternative to
Spring (Dynamic Module/Blueprint). Developing a server, certify it,
cost a lot.

As we we do not want to re-invent the wheel and due to number of
resources available, we prefer to capitalize on the work/efforts done.
This is why we come to you to discuss the idea about collaborating
together to improve existing geronimo-karaf platform to address points
mentioned in this thread
to be able to provide a KarafEE or Geronimo distro but using "features
mechanism" of Karaf to deploy OpenEJB, OpenJPA, new Karaf web console,

What do you think about that ?


Charles Moulliard

Apache Committer

Blog :
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Skype: cmoulliard

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: James Strachan<>
Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Proposition] - Apache KarafEE

Given Geronimo is already based on Karaf and focussed on EE; am not
sure why re-implementing Geronimo inside Karaf is a good idea -
wouldn't it be better to just work with the Geronimo community to fix
the issues you've raised (which seems to be about having more
Karaf-like approaches available inside Geronimo and fixing up the web
consoles - neither seem that big a deal to me to require forking a
community&  project?). Am sure the Geronimo folks would be happy to

take contributions to enable more of Karaf's features in an EE context

Certifying against EE is a massive amount of work; there has to be a
really really good reason (and a ton of volunteers with a massive
amount of free time who've got nothing better to do) to justify
duplicating that effort.

Given how modular OSGi&  Karaf are; am not sure why any of these goals

can't be solved inside Geronimo (e.g. take Geronimo uninstall its
console, install Karaf's console - no need to fork a community for

On 14 December 2011 12:40, Charles Moulliard<>  wrote:

As you probably knows, I work with OpenEJB community since a couple of
weeks to be able to deploy OpenEJB 4.0.0-SNAPSHOT on Apache Karaf. The
OpenEJB container can already been deployed and EJBs jars registered.
Work should be done around OpenEJB to be able to easily scan (like we
do for deploy directory in Karaf) new or updated EJB jars file and add
karaf command.

When this new brick will be ready, everything will be in place to
propose/provide an Apache KarafEE (EE = Enterprise Edition) release
packaging OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries JPA, Aries JNDI, Pax Web, Aries
Transaction Manager.

The first question/remark that I will receive from the communauty will
be : Great/Brillant idea but Apache Geronimo is already there and use
Apache Karaf. So why developing a new server : There a lot of good
reasons why we should do that and study my suggestion carefully but
some arguments could be :
(1) concurrence in this area is always good comparing to what we have
in J2EE world, JBoss, TomEE, Glassfish. J2EE are de facto servers used
in major and many Java projects. OSGI is not yet recognized as a
robust and simple solution to be used due to lack of tooling,
complexity to package and create bundles. So having a new OSGI true
J2EE server could help to spread the world,
(2) The packaging and deployment approach of Apache Geronimo is a bit
different from Karaf and some of the Karaf features are not enable
(e.g : features, ...).
(3) The Geronimo web console cannot be reused for Apache Karaf and now
with our new WebConsole we are independent of Apache WebConsole Felix
(4) EJB is back since spec EJB3 like also JPA and more and more
project does not longer use de facto Spring !
(5) With Cellar/Fabric we have a strong foundation to
deploy/manage/use Karaf in the cloud and design multi-servers

KarafEE could be like Cellar, new WebConsole a subproject having its
own assembly release process. It will contain assembly process,
featurs, karaf commands, branding and web consoles stuffs.

Remark : I have proposed also for OpenEJB that they have a
karaf-assembly but our sub-project could be designed for that purpose

What do you think about this proposition ?


Charles Moulliard

Apache Committer

Blog :
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Linkedin :
Skype: cmoulliard

Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews

Open Source Integration and Messaging

Jean-Baptiste Onofré
Talend -


Apache Geronimo