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From viola lu <viola...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Proposition] - Collaboration between Karaf - Geronimo
Date Thu, 15 Dec 2011 13:27:28 GMT
It seems like a good idea to me.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb@nanthrax.net>wrote:

> Hi Charles,
>
> as discussed on Karaf, I'm really eager to see the feedback from the
> Geronimo community.
>
> I would be more than happy to join and help the Geronimo community around
> the Karaf usage and see what we can do to provide a better Geronimo and
> Karaf.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
>
> On 12/15/2011 10:55 AM, Charles Moulliard wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Within mailing list of Karaf, we have started a discussion about the
>> idea to have a KarafEE release. This idea is similar to the reflection
>> that OpenEJB team has had with TomEE but using Tomcat as Java
>> Application Server. As Geronimo uses Karaf as their kernel (which is
>> not the case for Glassfish, JBoss, Eclipse Virgo, ...) that makes a
>> lot of sense that we continue to promote karaf as platform not only
>> for Integration Server like ServiceMix but also for J2EE platform.
>> Since EJB3 spec and CDI, we see more and more projects interested to
>> have/use an EJB container on Karaf and use it as an alternative to
>> Spring (Dynamic Module/Blueprint). Developing a server, certify it,
>> cost a lot.
>>
>> As we we do not want to re-invent the wheel and due to number of
>> resources available, we prefer to capitalize on the work/efforts done.
>> This is why we come to you to discuss the idea about collaborating
>> together to improve existing geronimo-karaf platform to address points
>> mentioned in this thread
>> (http://karaf.922171.n3.**nabble.com/Proposition-Apache-**
>> KarafEE-td3585332.html<http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/Proposition-Apache-KarafEE-td3585332.html>
>> )
>> to be able to provide a KarafEE or Geronimo distro but using "features
>> mechanism" of Karaf to deploy OpenEJB, OpenJPA, new Karaf web console,
>> ...
>>
>> What do you think about that ?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Charles Moulliard
>>
>> Apache Committer
>>
>> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
>> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
>> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/**charlesmoulliard<http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard>
>> Skype: cmoulliard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: James Strachan<james@fusesource.com>
>> Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:54 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Proposition] - Apache KarafEE
>> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>>
>>
>> Given Geronimo is already based on Karaf and focussed on EE; am not
>> sure why re-implementing Geronimo inside Karaf is a good idea -
>> wouldn't it be better to just work with the Geronimo community to fix
>> the issues you've raised (which seems to be about having more
>> Karaf-like approaches available inside Geronimo and fixing up the web
>> consoles - neither seem that big a deal to me to require forking a
>> community&  project?). Am sure the Geronimo folks would be happy to
>>
>> take contributions to enable more of Karaf's features in an EE context
>> etc.
>>
>> Certifying against EE is a massive amount of work; there has to be a
>> really really good reason (and a ton of volunteers with a massive
>> amount of free time who've got nothing better to do) to justify
>> duplicating that effort.
>>
>> Given how modular OSGi&  Karaf are; am not sure why any of these goals
>>
>> can't be solved inside Geronimo (e.g. take Geronimo uninstall its
>> console, install Karaf's console - no need to fork a community for
>> that?).
>>
>> On 14 December 2011 12:40, Charles Moulliard<cmoulliard@gmail.com**>
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> As you probably knows, I work with OpenEJB community since a couple of
>>> weeks to be able to deploy OpenEJB 4.0.0-SNAPSHOT on Apache Karaf. The
>>> OpenEJB container can already been deployed and EJBs jars registered.
>>> Work should be done around OpenEJB to be able to easily scan (like we
>>> do for deploy directory in Karaf) new or updated EJB jars file and add
>>> karaf command.
>>>
>>> When this new brick will be ready, everything will be in place to
>>> propose/provide an Apache KarafEE (EE = Enterprise Edition) release
>>> packaging OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries JPA, Aries JNDI, Pax Web, Aries
>>> Transaction Manager.
>>>
>>> The first question/remark that I will receive from the communauty will
>>> be : Great/Brillant idea but Apache Geronimo is already there and use
>>> Apache Karaf. So why developing a new server : There a lot of good
>>> reasons why we should do that and study my suggestion carefully but
>>> some arguments could be :
>>> (1) concurrence in this area is always good comparing to what we have
>>> in J2EE world, JBoss, TomEE, Glassfish. J2EE are de facto servers used
>>> in major and many Java projects. OSGI is not yet recognized as a
>>> robust and simple solution to be used due to lack of tooling,
>>> complexity to package and create bundles. So having a new OSGI true
>>> J2EE server could help to spread the world,
>>> (2) The packaging and deployment approach of Apache Geronimo is a bit
>>> different from Karaf and some of the Karaf features are not enable
>>> (e.g : features, ...).
>>> (3) The Geronimo web console cannot be reused for Apache Karaf and now
>>> with our new WebConsole we are independent of Apache WebConsole Felix
>>> (4) EJB is back since spec EJB3 like also JPA and more and more
>>> project does not longer use de facto Spring !
>>> (5) With Cellar/Fabric we have a strong foundation to
>>> deploy/manage/use Karaf in the cloud and design multi-servers
>>> architecture.
>>>
>>> KarafEE could be like Cellar, new WebConsole a subproject having its
>>> own assembly release process. It will contain assembly process,
>>> featurs, karaf commands, branding and web consoles stuffs.
>>>
>>> Remark : I have proposed also for OpenEJB that they have a
>>> karaf-assembly but our sub-project could be designed for that purpose
>>> - http://openejb.979440.n4.**nabble.com/Proposition-New-**
>>> maven-module-OpenEJB-Karaf-**tt4194577.html<http://openejb.979440.n4.nabble.com/Proposition-New-maven-module-OpenEJB-Karaf-tt4194577.html>
>>>
>>> What do you think about this proposition ?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Charles Moulliard
>>>
>>> Apache Committer
>>>
>>> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
>>> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
>>> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/**charlesmoulliard<http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard>
>>> Skype: cmoulliard
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> James
>> -------
>> FuseSource
>> Email: james@fusesource.com
>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews
>> Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Open Source Integration and Messaging
>>
>
> --
> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> jbonofre@apache.org
> http://blog.nanthrax.net
> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>



-- 
viola

Apache Geronimo

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