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From Charles Moulliard <>
Subject [Proposition] - Collaboration between Karaf - Geronimo
Date Thu, 15 Dec 2011 09:55:15 GMT

Within mailing list of Karaf, we have started a discussion about the
idea to have a KarafEE release. This idea is similar to the reflection
that OpenEJB team has had with TomEE but using Tomcat as Java
Application Server. As Geronimo uses Karaf as their kernel (which is
not the case for Glassfish, JBoss, Eclipse Virgo, ...) that makes a
lot of sense that we continue to promote karaf as platform not only
for Integration Server like ServiceMix but also for J2EE platform.
Since EJB3 spec and CDI, we see more and more projects interested to
have/use an EJB container on Karaf and use it as an alternative to
Spring (Dynamic Module/Blueprint). Developing a server, certify it,
cost a lot.

As we we do not want to re-invent the wheel and due to number of
resources available, we prefer to capitalize on the work/efforts done.
This is why we come to you to discuss the idea about collaborating
together to improve existing geronimo-karaf platform to address points
mentioned in this thread
to be able to provide a KarafEE or Geronimo distro but using "features
mechanism" of Karaf to deploy OpenEJB, OpenJPA, new Karaf web console,

What do you think about that ?


Charles Moulliard

Apache Committer

Blog :
Twitter :
Linkedin :
Skype: cmoulliard

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: James Strachan <>
Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Proposition] - Apache KarafEE

Given Geronimo is already based on Karaf and focussed on EE; am not
sure why re-implementing Geronimo inside Karaf is a good idea -
wouldn't it be better to just work with the Geronimo community to fix
the issues you've raised (which seems to be about having more
Karaf-like approaches available inside Geronimo and fixing up the web
consoles - neither seem that big a deal to me to require forking a
community & project?). Am sure the Geronimo folks would be happy to
take contributions to enable more of Karaf's features in an EE context

Certifying against EE is a massive amount of work; there has to be a
really really good reason (and a ton of volunteers with a massive
amount of free time who've got nothing better to do) to justify
duplicating that effort.

Given how modular OSGi & Karaf are; am not sure why any of these goals
can't be solved inside Geronimo (e.g. take Geronimo uninstall its
console, install Karaf's console - no need to fork a community for

On 14 December 2011 12:40, Charles Moulliard <> wrote:
> Hi,
> As you probably knows, I work with OpenEJB community since a couple of
> weeks to be able to deploy OpenEJB 4.0.0-SNAPSHOT on Apache Karaf. The
> OpenEJB container can already been deployed and EJBs jars registered.
> Work should be done around OpenEJB to be able to easily scan (like we
> do for deploy directory in Karaf) new or updated EJB jars file and add
> karaf command.
> When this new brick will be ready, everything will be in place to
> propose/provide an Apache KarafEE (EE = Enterprise Edition) release
> packaging OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries JPA, Aries JNDI, Pax Web, Aries
> Transaction Manager.
> The first question/remark that I will receive from the communauty will
> be : Great/Brillant idea but Apache Geronimo is already there and use
> Apache Karaf. So why developing a new server : There a lot of good
> reasons why we should do that and study my suggestion carefully but
> some arguments could be :
> (1) concurrence in this area is always good comparing to what we have
> in J2EE world, JBoss, TomEE, Glassfish. J2EE are de facto servers used
> in major and many Java projects. OSGI is not yet recognized as a
> robust and simple solution to be used due to lack of tooling,
> complexity to package and create bundles. So having a new OSGI true
> J2EE server could help to spread the world,
> (2) The packaging and deployment approach of Apache Geronimo is a bit
> different from Karaf and some of the Karaf features are not enable
> (e.g : features, ...).
> (3) The Geronimo web console cannot be reused for Apache Karaf and now
> with our new WebConsole we are independent of Apache WebConsole Felix
> (4) EJB is back since spec EJB3 like also JPA and more and more
> project does not longer use de facto Spring !
> (5) With Cellar/Fabric we have a strong foundation to
> deploy/manage/use Karaf in the cloud and design multi-servers
> architecture.
> KarafEE could be like Cellar, new WebConsole a subproject having its
> own assembly release process. It will contain assembly process,
> featurs, karaf commands, branding and web consoles stuffs.
> Remark : I have proposed also for OpenEJB that they have a
> karaf-assembly but our sub-project could be designed for that purpose
> -
> What do you think about this proposition ?
> Regards,
> Charles Moulliard
> Apache Committer
> Blog :
> Twitter :
> Linkedin :
> Skype: cmoulliard

Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews

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