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From Rex Wang <rwo...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Proposition] - Collaboration between Karaf - Geronimo
Date Fri, 16 Dec 2011 03:18:01 GMT
So, in a word, IIUC, you are suggesting leverage the karaf features more in
geronimo? Actually, there was some similar discussions in geronimo mailling
list before. And David Jencks did a lot of investigation about this. Please
see his post as following:

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/geronimo-dev/201103.mbox/%3CF9AA388E-8050-4055-8719-5CD14B5125F8@yahoo.com%3E

There really would be a lot of works to do to replace the current geronimo
plugins mechanism with karaf features. And sure, I'd like to see geronimo
to be more OSGi-friendly in future. However, TCK would be the main issue to
do such fundamental refactor. That will involve a great many resources to
make the server comply with it.

-Rex

2011/12/15 Charles Moulliard <cmoulliard@gmail.com>

> Hi,
>
> Within mailing list of Karaf, we have started a discussion about the
> idea to have a KarafEE release. This idea is similar to the reflection
> that OpenEJB team has had with TomEE but using Tomcat as Java
> Application Server. As Geronimo uses Karaf as their kernel (which is
> not the case for Glassfish, JBoss, Eclipse Virgo, ...) that makes a
> lot of sense that we continue to promote karaf as platform not only
> for Integration Server like ServiceMix but also for J2EE platform.
> Since EJB3 spec and CDI, we see more and more projects interested to
> have/use an EJB container on Karaf and use it as an alternative to
> Spring (Dynamic Module/Blueprint). Developing a server, certify it,
> cost a lot.
>
> As we we do not want to re-invent the wheel and due to number of
> resources available, we prefer to capitalize on the work/efforts done.
> This is why we come to you to discuss the idea about collaborating
> together to improve existing geronimo-karaf platform to address points
> mentioned in this thread
> (
> http://karaf.922171.n3.nabble.com/Proposition-Apache-KarafEE-td3585332.html
> )
> to be able to provide a KarafEE or Geronimo distro but using "features
> mechanism" of Karaf to deploy OpenEJB, OpenJPA, new Karaf web console,
> ...
>
> What do you think about that ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles Moulliard
>
> Apache Committer
>
> Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
> Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
> Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard
> Skype: cmoulliard
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: James Strachan <james@fusesource.com>
> Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [Proposition] - Apache KarafEE
> To: dev@karaf.apache.org
>
>
> Given Geronimo is already based on Karaf and focussed on EE; am not
> sure why re-implementing Geronimo inside Karaf is a good idea -
> wouldn't it be better to just work with the Geronimo community to fix
> the issues you've raised (which seems to be about having more
> Karaf-like approaches available inside Geronimo and fixing up the web
> consoles - neither seem that big a deal to me to require forking a
> community & project?). Am sure the Geronimo folks would be happy to
> take contributions to enable more of Karaf's features in an EE context
> etc.
>
> Certifying against EE is a massive amount of work; there has to be a
> really really good reason (and a ton of volunteers with a massive
> amount of free time who've got nothing better to do) to justify
> duplicating that effort.
>
> Given how modular OSGi & Karaf are; am not sure why any of these goals
> can't be solved inside Geronimo (e.g. take Geronimo uninstall its
> console, install Karaf's console - no need to fork a community for
> that?).
>
> On 14 December 2011 12:40, Charles Moulliard <cmoulliard@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > As you probably knows, I work with OpenEJB community since a couple of
> > weeks to be able to deploy OpenEJB 4.0.0-SNAPSHOT on Apache Karaf. The
> > OpenEJB container can already been deployed and EJBs jars registered.
> > Work should be done around OpenEJB to be able to easily scan (like we
> > do for deploy directory in Karaf) new or updated EJB jars file and add
> > karaf command.
> >
> > When this new brick will be ready, everything will be in place to
> > propose/provide an Apache KarafEE (EE = Enterprise Edition) release
> > packaging OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries JPA, Aries JNDI, Pax Web, Aries
> > Transaction Manager.
> >
> > The first question/remark that I will receive from the communauty will
> > be : Great/Brillant idea but Apache Geronimo is already there and use
> > Apache Karaf. So why developing a new server : There a lot of good
> > reasons why we should do that and study my suggestion carefully but
> > some arguments could be :
> > (1) concurrence in this area is always good comparing to what we have
> > in J2EE world, JBoss, TomEE, Glassfish. J2EE are de facto servers used
> > in major and many Java projects. OSGI is not yet recognized as a
> > robust and simple solution to be used due to lack of tooling,
> > complexity to package and create bundles. So having a new OSGI true
> > J2EE server could help to spread the world,
> > (2) The packaging and deployment approach of Apache Geronimo is a bit
> > different from Karaf and some of the Karaf features are not enable
> > (e.g : features, ...).
> > (3) The Geronimo web console cannot be reused for Apache Karaf and now
> > with our new WebConsole we are independent of Apache WebConsole Felix
> > (4) EJB is back since spec EJB3 like also JPA and more and more
> > project does not longer use de facto Spring !
> > (5) With Cellar/Fabric we have a strong foundation to
> > deploy/manage/use Karaf in the cloud and design multi-servers
> > architecture.
> >
> > KarafEE could be like Cellar, new WebConsole a subproject having its
> > own assembly release process. It will contain assembly process,
> > featurs, karaf commands, branding and web consoles stuffs.
> >
> > Remark : I have proposed also for OpenEJB that they have a
> > karaf-assembly but our sub-project could be designed for that purpose
> > -
> http://openejb.979440.n4.nabble.com/Proposition-New-maven-module-OpenEJB-Karaf-tt4194577.html
> >
> > What do you think about this proposition ?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Charles Moulliard
> >
> > Apache Committer
> >
> > Blog : http://cmoulliard.blogspot.com
> > Twitter : http://twitter.com/cmoulliard
> > Linkedin : http://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesmoulliard
> > Skype: cmoulliard
>
>
>
> --
> James
> -------
> FuseSource
> Email: james@fusesource.com
> Web: http://fusesource.com
> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews
> Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/
>
> Open Source Integration and Messaging
>



-- 
Lei Wang (Rex)
rwonly AT apache.org

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