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From Jean-Baptiste Onofré>
Subject Re: [Proposition] - Collaboration between Karaf - Geronimo
Date Thu, 15 Dec 2011 09:57:36 GMT
Hi Charles,

as discussed on Karaf, I'm really eager to see the feedback from the 
Geronimo community.

I would be more than happy to join and help the Geronimo community 
around the Karaf usage and see what we can do to provide a better 
Geronimo and Karaf.


On 12/15/2011 10:55 AM, Charles Moulliard wrote:
> Hi,
> Within mailing list of Karaf, we have started a discussion about the
> idea to have a KarafEE release. This idea is similar to the reflection
> that OpenEJB team has had with TomEE but using Tomcat as Java
> Application Server. As Geronimo uses Karaf as their kernel (which is
> not the case for Glassfish, JBoss, Eclipse Virgo, ...) that makes a
> lot of sense that we continue to promote karaf as platform not only
> for Integration Server like ServiceMix but also for J2EE platform.
> Since EJB3 spec and CDI, we see more and more projects interested to
> have/use an EJB container on Karaf and use it as an alternative to
> Spring (Dynamic Module/Blueprint). Developing a server, certify it,
> cost a lot.
> As we we do not want to re-invent the wheel and due to number of
> resources available, we prefer to capitalize on the work/efforts done.
> This is why we come to you to discuss the idea about collaborating
> together to improve existing geronimo-karaf platform to address points
> mentioned in this thread
> (
> to be able to provide a KarafEE or Geronimo distro but using "features
> mechanism" of Karaf to deploy OpenEJB, OpenJPA, new Karaf web console,
> ...
> What do you think about that ?
> Regards,
> Charles Moulliard
> Apache Committer
> Blog :
> Twitter :
> Linkedin :
> Skype: cmoulliard
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: James Strachan<>
> Date: Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [Proposition] - Apache KarafEE
> To:
> Given Geronimo is already based on Karaf and focussed on EE; am not
> sure why re-implementing Geronimo inside Karaf is a good idea -
> wouldn't it be better to just work with the Geronimo community to fix
> the issues you've raised (which seems to be about having more
> Karaf-like approaches available inside Geronimo and fixing up the web
> consoles - neither seem that big a deal to me to require forking a
> community&  project?). Am sure the Geronimo folks would be happy to
> take contributions to enable more of Karaf's features in an EE context
> etc.
> Certifying against EE is a massive amount of work; there has to be a
> really really good reason (and a ton of volunteers with a massive
> amount of free time who've got nothing better to do) to justify
> duplicating that effort.
> Given how modular OSGi&  Karaf are; am not sure why any of these goals
> can't be solved inside Geronimo (e.g. take Geronimo uninstall its
> console, install Karaf's console - no need to fork a community for
> that?).
> On 14 December 2011 12:40, Charles Moulliard<>  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> As you probably knows, I work with OpenEJB community since a couple of
>> weeks to be able to deploy OpenEJB 4.0.0-SNAPSHOT on Apache Karaf. The
>> OpenEJB container can already been deployed and EJBs jars registered.
>> Work should be done around OpenEJB to be able to easily scan (like we
>> do for deploy directory in Karaf) new or updated EJB jars file and add
>> karaf command.
>> When this new brick will be ready, everything will be in place to
>> propose/provide an Apache KarafEE (EE = Enterprise Edition) release
>> packaging OpenEJB, OpenJPA, Aries JPA, Aries JNDI, Pax Web, Aries
>> Transaction Manager.
>> The first question/remark that I will receive from the communauty will
>> be : Great/Brillant idea but Apache Geronimo is already there and use
>> Apache Karaf. So why developing a new server : There a lot of good
>> reasons why we should do that and study my suggestion carefully but
>> some arguments could be :
>> (1) concurrence in this area is always good comparing to what we have
>> in J2EE world, JBoss, TomEE, Glassfish. J2EE are de facto servers used
>> in major and many Java projects. OSGI is not yet recognized as a
>> robust and simple solution to be used due to lack of tooling,
>> complexity to package and create bundles. So having a new OSGI true
>> J2EE server could help to spread the world,
>> (2) The packaging and deployment approach of Apache Geronimo is a bit
>> different from Karaf and some of the Karaf features are not enable
>> (e.g : features, ...).
>> (3) The Geronimo web console cannot be reused for Apache Karaf and now
>> with our new WebConsole we are independent of Apache WebConsole Felix
>> (4) EJB is back since spec EJB3 like also JPA and more and more
>> project does not longer use de facto Spring !
>> (5) With Cellar/Fabric we have a strong foundation to
>> deploy/manage/use Karaf in the cloud and design multi-servers
>> architecture.
>> KarafEE could be like Cellar, new WebConsole a subproject having its
>> own assembly release process. It will contain assembly process,
>> featurs, karaf commands, branding and web consoles stuffs.
>> Remark : I have proposed also for OpenEJB that they have a
>> karaf-assembly but our sub-project could be designed for that purpose
>> -
>> What do you think about this proposition ?
>> Regards,
>> Charles Moulliard
>> Apache Committer
>> Blog :
>> Twitter :
>> Linkedin :
>> Skype: cmoulliard
> --
> James
> -------
> FuseSource
> Email:
> Web:
> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews
> Blog:
> Open Source Integration and Messaging

Jean-Baptiste Onofré
Talend -

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