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From Jason Dillon <ja...@planet57.com>
Subject Re: Geronimo VM-appliance?
Date Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:53:42 GMT
Any idea why kinda of images you'd like to see?  I'm gonna try and  
craft a simple, base-os+Geronimo image to test out.  But I think we  
might want one which has say roller configured perhaps even another  
which can demonstrate AMQ's message distribution over a cluster.

--jason


On Dec 15, 2008, at 3:24 PM, David Jencks wrote:

> I think this is a great idea.  I doubt we can host it at apache.....  
> unless we do something like bsd  + harmony (not even sure if that is  
> likely to work)
>
> thanks
> david jencks
>
> On Dec 15, 2008, at 12:01 AM, Jason Dillon wrote:
>
>> I've been playing around with VMWare, trying to optimize my  
>> virtualization configuration, and it occurred to me that folks who  
>> are savvy to the virtualization concept might benefit from having a  
>> linux+openjdk+geronimo appliance ready to "play with" perhaps  
>> another which is "ready for enterprise configuration".
>>
>> From an Apache POV its another distribution, specific to a  
>> virtualization tool, like VMWare, but users who already have the  
>> required tools installed, can basically download + install + run,  
>> and they have a functional environment...
>>
>> IMO this is really nice as it drops a ton of evil platform issues  
>> (er ya *F*-windows) but also can resolve issues about which JDK did  
>> you install and did you configure your JAVA_HOME, blah, blah,  
>> blah.  There are a ton of problems a newbie might run into when  
>> trying to play around with Geronimo as we all know.
>>
>> Granted, not everyone is going to have a virtualization environment  
>> setup, but some will I'm sure... probably even the more savvy users  
>> I would guess (and well we can probably give docs to explain how to  
>> setup some virt stuff too if needed).  But those who do, we can  
>> deliver them highly functionally images for "playing" or images  
>> tailored for enterprise consumption.  That might be one which is  
>> bare-minimum for folks that need a starting point to roll uber- 
>> custom configurations (perhaps with a nice build env setup already  
>> for them, primed with repo artifacts) or one for users that want to  
>> deploy clustered ejb+web applications, and then another for simple  
>> web apps.
>>
>> Seems to me that the advantage here is that you can configure the  
>> server and provide simple admin+user documentation on a known  
>> quantity... that being the VM which we publish for them.  That VM  
>> *should* perform *approximately* the same on any non-virtual host  
>> configuration (assuming we craft the image correctly).  But, okay  
>> I'm no math genius, but from my perspective... lets say 10x users  
>> have a problem due to config stuff right now, maybe 1-2x might have  
>> a problem with the image (its damn easy to setup a VM-configuration  
>> these days, and also damn easy to install an image).
>>
>> So, *assuming* that folks are savvy with VM-technology, it might  
>> very well be *easier* to provide a VM image pre-configured for  
>> their evaluation/exploration of Geronimo.
>>
>> I don't really expect folks to use that image for production, but I  
>> would expect them to learn from then image to build their  
>> production environment, perhaps even copying the configuration from  
>> the image as a bootstrap (and I think we should provide docs on how  
>> to do that).  Though for some folks, the image (say the simple  
>> webapp image) might work just fine.
>>
>> I've seen a lot of mails about system dependent problems... windows  
>> especially, damn I hate that platform... but there are other  
>> problems too.  Like folks on Redhat who don't uninstall the crappy  
>> GNU java muck and manually install the sun/ibm JDK, etc.  So I'm  
>> not just hating on windows (though you and I both know I really,  
>> really, really... really hate it).
>>
>> * * *
>>
>> Bottom line is that I think use of virtual machines is becoming  
>> more popular.  I think it would be beneficial to Geronimo if we  
>> provided one (or more) virtual machines images to showcase  
>> Geronimo's full power... and reduce the myriad of complications  
>> some initial users run into why running locally on their own  
>> systems.  And furthermore, we can provide more customized images  
>> which fully exploit the full power of the system, without having to  
>> go and complicate our build (create new assemblies, slowing down  
>> build/dev times, etc).
>>
>> After writing all this, I think the only real issue is, since we  
>> are part of Apache and this would technically be considered  some  
>> sort of *release* artifact... who does including Linux (whatever  
>> distro) jive with the ASF legally?
>>
>> I believe its a good idea... obviously or I would not have wasted  
>> the time to try and explain my thoughts to you.  But I'm unsure  
>> that the ASF can allow for such things, short of an ASF operating- 
>> system coming into existence (which I'm neither counting on, nor  
>> hope happens).  Perhaps a separate sourceforge or code.google  
>> project might suite better for legal issues?
>>
>> Anyways, seems like a good idea, I'd like to see it happen, its not  
>> that hard... what do you folks think?
>>
>> --jason
>>
>>
>


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