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From Donald Woods <dwo...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Geronimo VM-appliance?
Date Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:37:08 GMT
OS+Java 6+FF3+Server+Samples+Eclipse+GEP would be ideal for developers....


-Donald


Jason Dillon wrote:
> Any idea why kinda of images you'd like to see?  I'm gonna try and craft 
> a simple, base-os+Geronimo image to test out.  But I think we might want 
> one which has say roller configured perhaps even another which can 
> demonstrate AMQ's message distribution over a cluster.
> 
> --jason
> 
> 
> On Dec 15, 2008, at 3:24 PM, David Jencks wrote:
> 
>> I think this is a great idea.  I doubt we can host it at apache..... 
>> unless we do something like bsd  + harmony (not even sure if that is 
>> likely to work)
>>
>> thanks
>> david jencks
>>
>> On Dec 15, 2008, at 12:01 AM, Jason Dillon wrote:
>>
>>> I've been playing around with VMWare, trying to optimize my 
>>> virtualization configuration, and it occurred to me that folks who 
>>> are savvy to the virtualization concept might benefit from having a 
>>> linux+openjdk+geronimo appliance ready to "play with" perhaps another 
>>> which is "ready for enterprise configuration".
>>>
>>> From an Apache POV its another distribution, specific to a 
>>> virtualization tool, like VMWare, but users who already have the 
>>> required tools installed, can basically download + install + run, and 
>>> they have a functional environment...
>>>
>>> IMO this is really nice as it drops a ton of evil platform issues (er 
>>> ya *F*-windows) but also can resolve issues about which JDK did you 
>>> install and did you configure your JAVA_HOME, blah, blah, blah.  
>>> There are a ton of problems a newbie might run into when trying to 
>>> play around with Geronimo as we all know.
>>>
>>> Granted, not everyone is going to have a virtualization environment 
>>> setup, but some will I'm sure... probably even the more savvy users I 
>>> would guess (and well we can probably give docs to explain how to 
>>> setup some virt stuff too if needed).  But those who do, we can 
>>> deliver them highly functionally images for "playing" or images 
>>> tailored for enterprise consumption.  That might be one which is 
>>> bare-minimum for folks that need a starting point to roll uber-custom 
>>> configurations (perhaps with a nice build env setup already for them, 
>>> primed with repo artifacts) or one for users that want to deploy 
>>> clustered ejb+web applications, and then another for simple web apps.
>>>
>>> Seems to me that the advantage here is that you can configure the 
>>> server and provide simple admin+user documentation on a known 
>>> quantity... that being the VM which we publish for them.  That VM 
>>> *should* perform *approximately* the same on any non-virtual host 
>>> configuration (assuming we craft the image correctly).  But, okay I'm 
>>> no math genius, but from my perspective... lets say 10x users have a 
>>> problem due to config stuff right now, maybe 1-2x might have a 
>>> problem with the image (its damn easy to setup a VM-configuration 
>>> these days, and also damn easy to install an image).
>>>
>>> So, *assuming* that folks are savvy with VM-technology, it might very 
>>> well be *easier* to provide a VM image pre-configured for their 
>>> evaluation/exploration of Geronimo.
>>>
>>> I don't really expect folks to use that image for production, but I 
>>> would expect them to learn from then image to build their production 
>>> environment, perhaps even copying the configuration from the image as 
>>> a bootstrap (and I think we should provide docs on how to do that).  
>>> Though for some folks, the image (say the simple webapp image) might 
>>> work just fine.
>>>
>>> I've seen a lot of mails about system dependent problems... windows 
>>> especially, damn I hate that platform... but there are other problems 
>>> too.  Like folks on Redhat who don't uninstall the crappy GNU java 
>>> muck and manually install the sun/ibm JDK, etc.  So I'm not just 
>>> hating on windows (though you and I both know I really, really, 
>>> really... really hate it).
>>>
>>> * * *
>>>
>>> Bottom line is that I think use of virtual machines is becoming more 
>>> popular.  I think it would be beneficial to Geronimo if we provided 
>>> one (or more) virtual machines images to showcase Geronimo's full 
>>> power... and reduce the myriad of complications some initial users 
>>> run into why running locally on their own systems.  And furthermore, 
>>> we can provide more customized images which fully exploit the full 
>>> power of the system, without having to go and complicate our build 
>>> (create new assemblies, slowing down build/dev times, etc).
>>>
>>> After writing all this, I think the only real issue is, since we are 
>>> part of Apache and this would technically be considered  some sort of 
>>> *release* artifact... who does including Linux (whatever distro) jive 
>>> with the ASF legally?
>>>
>>> I believe its a good idea... obviously or I would not have wasted the 
>>> time to try and explain my thoughts to you.  But I'm unsure that the 
>>> ASF can allow for such things, short of an ASF operating-system 
>>> coming into existence (which I'm neither counting on, nor hope 
>>> happens).  Perhaps a separate sourceforge or code.google project 
>>> might suite better for legal issues?
>>>
>>> Anyways, seems like a good idea, I'd like to see it happen, its not 
>>> that hard... what do you folks think?
>>>
>>> --jason
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 

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