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Message-ID: <add18bc80808110646w697ba2bau4a5240365b9a1c37@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 09:46:58 -0400
From: "Lin Sun" <linsun.unc@gmail.com>
To: dev@geronimo.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Remove GEP server features?
In-Reply-To: <3da992810808110638n39a034dew8a7c1057c55b8a11@mail.gmail.com>
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References: <3da992810808091159u6f48b2a0lb9be9da22946af32@mail.gmail.com>
	 <add18bc80808110633l68accfalfb3f14a1cde695e1@mail.gmail.com>
	 <3da992810808110638n39a034dew8a7c1057c55b8a11@mail.gmail.com>

Cool - I agree there is no reason for us to provide that function!

Lin

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Ted Kirby <ted.kirby@gmail.com> wrote:
> As I mentioned in the note, none of the packaged servers provide a
> "download and install" function.  They appear to assume that the
> server is already installed.
>
> Ted
>
> On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Lin Sun <linsun.unc@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It would be great to have AG added to the list of server adapters
>> bundled with WTP!  I wonder what is the behavior of other servers'
>> adapters, such as Tomcat, WAS or JBoss... do they provide the
>> "download the server" function?   If they do, users may expect us to
>> work the same way.
>>
>> Lin
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Ted Kirby <ted.kirby@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> One motivation here is to simplify things for users.  The first choice
>>> when installing GEP using the eclipse update manager is do you want an
>>> "Apache Geronimo Runtimes" or "Geronimo WTP Server Adapters".  (I
>>> addressed a simplification issue in the "Geronimo WTP Server Adapters"
>>> section in (GERONIMODEVTOOLS-469) Remove Core Geronimo Feature.)
>>>
>>> Here, we take aim at eliminating "Apache Geronimo Runtimes".
>>>
>>> Should we allow a user to download the server from eclipse?
>>>
>>> Do we want to use the eclipse update manager to distribute our
>>> servers?  Certainly with plugins and configurable servers, this does
>>> not seem to be the way to go going forward.
>>>
>>> The org.apache.geronimo.server.{jetty,tomcat}.v2{01}.feature features
>>> allow the various instances of the server to be downloaded and
>>> installed.
>>>
>>> There are two ways this can work.  First, one of these server features
>>> may be installed in eclipse.  This results in the server.zip file
>>> being downloaded from the eclipse update web site (which is much (3-4
>>> times) slower than downloading the server.zip with your web browser),
>>> and putting it the eclipse features directory.  When you define a
>>> server, you choose an empty directory, and click the "Download and
>>> Install" button.  The server .zip previously downloaded is then
>>> expanded to this directory.  The second way this can work is to skip
>>> the installation of server feature altogether, and simply define a new
>>> server, choose an empty directory, and click the "Download and
>>> Install" button.  The same server.zip file is downloaded to the
>>> eclipse features directory, then expanded to the target directory.
>>>
>>> There are development costs and issues associated with maintaining and
>>> continuing to provide this support.  Keeping the license and notice
>>> files in-sync is one issue.  The "Download and Install" function has
>>> consumed a large number of development hours.  There is a problem with
>>> uninstalling them in Ganymede.  (See (GERONIMODEVTOOLS-467) Can't
>>> uninstall runtime after installing it via eclipse update manager in
>>> Ganymede for details.)  Also with Ganymede, there is a new version of
>>> the eclipse update manager, p2.  It is supposed to be compatible with
>>> the old one.  It handles the server adapters OK, but not the server
>>> features.  It reverts to the older update manager to install them.  (I
>>> think this is why they cannot be uninstalled.)
>>>
>>> I think most users will download the server, install it and run it,
>>> and especially customize it.  Then, I think they will use eclipse and
>>> GEP to develop applications for their existing server.  I don't think
>>> many users are using eclipse to download the server.
>>>
>>> These servers have their WTP server adapters bundled with WTP:
>>>
>>> Apache Tomcat
>>> IBM WAS v6.0
>>> JBoss
>>> ObjectWeb JOnAS
>>> Oracle OC4J
>>>
>>> I think we should pursue getting GEP in that list.  When defining new
>>> servers for these servers, only Apache Tomcat offers a "Download and
>>> Install" button, and it is permanently grayed out.  Most of them
>>> populate the app sever directory text box with /your_server_root/...,
>>> indicating they expect you to install it outside of eclipse.
>>>
>>> I think we can hide the server features, but still allow "Download and
>>> Install" to work.  I would put the server features on some other site,
>>> not the main one.  Then, users would not see it as an install option,
>>> but the "Download and Install" button would still work, because it
>>> would find the server on this other web site.
>>>
>>> However, all things considered, maybe we should remove the server
>>> features altogether.  We are so close to GEP 2.1.2 that we may want to
>>> do this until after GEP 2.1.2.  For 2.1.2, we may want to hide the
>>> server feature as described above.
>>>
>>> Comments?
>>>
>>> Ted Kirby
>>>
>>
>