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From "Lin Sun" <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Remove GEP server features?
Date Mon, 11 Aug 2008 14:42:58 GMT
Looks right to me.  That is the URL we provided in the release note -



On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Ted Kirby <> wrote:
> I'll see if I can change the current "Download and Install" button to
> a "Download" button that would open
> in a browser window...  Is
> that the right URL?
> Ted
> On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 8:12 PM, Donald Woods <> wrote:
>> Agree, but can we instead provide a Download button or link that launches a
>> browser to our distributions page, so we still make it easy for users to
>> find our server assemblies?
>> -Donald
>> Tim McConnell wrote:
>>> Hi Ted, I view the value-add of being able to download the Geronimo server
>>> from the GEP to be very negligible to an end-user. It's slow and very
>>> error-prone, and I cannot recall any problems reported by users of this
>>> capability, which leads me to believe that it is not used very much. We
>>> should probably verify on the user-list though (I wonder if we can somehow
>>> gather download statistics for these server features ??). As you've noted
>>> the development hours required to maintain this function in the future with
>>> the new provisioning system of Ganymede is going to continue to be
>>> inordinate. I don't really like the idea of "hiding" this capability though;
>>> I think we should just eliminate it entirely, especially if it would
>>> facilitate your idea of getting the GEP server adapter included with WTP,
>>> which is a wonderful idea as it could conceivably expose Geronimo to many
>>> new users who may not even be aware of it. Thanks
>>> Ted Kirby wrote:
>>>> One motivation here is to simplify things for users.  The first choice
>>>> when installing GEP using the eclipse update manager is do you want an
>>>> "Apache Geronimo Runtimes" or "Geronimo WTP Server Adapters".  (I
>>>> addressed a simplification issue in the "Geronimo WTP Server Adapters"
>>>> section in (GERONIMODEVTOOLS-469) Remove Core Geronimo Feature.)
>>>> Here, we take aim at eliminating "Apache Geronimo Runtimes".
>>>> Should we allow a user to download the server from eclipse?
>>>> Do we want to use the eclipse update manager to distribute our
>>>> servers?  Certainly with plugins and configurable servers, this does
>>>> not seem to be the way to go going forward.
>>>> The org.apache.geronimo.server.{jetty,tomcat}.v2{01}.feature features
>>>> allow the various instances of the server to be downloaded and
>>>> installed.
>>>> There are two ways this can work.  First, one of these server features
>>>> may be installed in eclipse.  This results in the file
>>>> being downloaded from the eclipse update web site (which is much (3-4
>>>> times) slower than downloading the with your web browser),
>>>> and putting it the eclipse features directory.  When you define a
>>>> server, you choose an empty directory, and click the "Download and
>>>> Install" button.  The server .zip previously downloaded is then
>>>> expanded to this directory.  The second way this can work is to skip
>>>> the installation of server feature altogether, and simply define a new
>>>> server, choose an empty directory, and click the "Download and
>>>> Install" button.  The same file is downloaded to the
>>>> eclipse features directory, then expanded to the target directory.
>>>> There are development costs and issues associated with maintaining and
>>>> continuing to provide this support.  Keeping the license and notice
>>>> files in-sync is one issue.  The "Download and Install" function has
>>>> consumed a large number of development hours.  There is a problem with
>>>> uninstalling them in Ganymede.  (See (GERONIMODEVTOOLS-467) Can't
>>>> uninstall runtime after installing it via eclipse update manager in
>>>> Ganymede for details.)  Also with Ganymede, there is a new version of
>>>> the eclipse update manager, p2.  It is supposed to be compatible with
>>>> the old one.  It handles the server adapters OK, but not the server
>>>> features.  It reverts to the older update manager to install them.  (I
>>>> think this is why they cannot be uninstalled.)
>>>> I think most users will download the server, install it and run it,
>>>> and especially customize it.  Then, I think they will use eclipse and
>>>> GEP to develop applications for their existing server.  I don't think
>>>> many users are using eclipse to download the server.
>>>> These servers have their WTP server adapters bundled with WTP:
>>>> Apache Tomcat
>>>> IBM WAS v6.0
>>>> JBoss
>>>> ObjectWeb JOnAS
>>>> Oracle OC4J
>>>> I think we should pursue getting GEP in that list.  When defining new
>>>> servers for these servers, only Apache Tomcat offers a "Download and
>>>> Install" button, and it is permanently grayed out.  Most of them
>>>> populate the app sever directory text box with /your_server_root/...,
>>>> indicating they expect you to install it outside of eclipse.
>>>> I think we can hide the server features, but still allow "Download and
>>>> Install" to work.  I would put the server features on some other site,
>>>> not the main one.  Then, users would not see it as an install option,
>>>> but the "Download and Install" button would still work, because it
>>>> would find the server on this other web site.
>>>> However, all things considered, maybe we should remove the server
>>>> features altogether.  We are so close to GEP 2.1.2 that we may want to
>>>> do this until after GEP 2.1.2.  For 2.1.2, we may want to hide the
>>>> server feature as described above.
>>>> Comments?
>>>> Ted Kirby

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