geronimo-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Donald Woods <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Remove GEP server features?
Date Mon, 11 Aug 2008 00:12:33 GMT
Agree, but can we instead provide a Download button or link that 
launches a browser to our distributions page, so we still make it easy 
for users to find our server assemblies?


Tim McConnell wrote:
> Hi Ted, I view the value-add of being able to download the Geronimo 
> server from the GEP to be very negligible to an end-user. It's slow and 
> very error-prone, and I cannot recall any problems reported by users of 
> this capability, which leads me to believe that it is not used very 
> much. We should probably verify on the user-list though (I wonder if we 
> can somehow gather download statistics for these server features ??). As 
> you've noted the development hours required to maintain this function in 
> the future with the new provisioning system of Ganymede is going to 
> continue to be inordinate. I don't really like the idea of "hiding" this 
> capability though; I think we should just eliminate it entirely, 
> especially if it would facilitate your idea of getting the GEP server 
> adapter included with WTP, which is a wonderful idea as it could 
> conceivably expose Geronimo to many new users who may not even be aware 
> of it. Thanks
> Ted Kirby wrote:
>> One motivation here is to simplify things for users.  The first choice
>> when installing GEP using the eclipse update manager is do you want an
>> "Apache Geronimo Runtimes" or "Geronimo WTP Server Adapters".  (I
>> addressed a simplification issue in the "Geronimo WTP Server Adapters"
>> section in (GERONIMODEVTOOLS-469) Remove Core Geronimo Feature.)
>> Here, we take aim at eliminating "Apache Geronimo Runtimes".
>> Should we allow a user to download the server from eclipse?
>> Do we want to use the eclipse update manager to distribute our
>> servers?  Certainly with plugins and configurable servers, this does
>> not seem to be the way to go going forward.
>> The org.apache.geronimo.server.{jetty,tomcat}.v2{01}.feature features
>> allow the various instances of the server to be downloaded and
>> installed.
>> There are two ways this can work.  First, one of these server features
>> may be installed in eclipse.  This results in the file
>> being downloaded from the eclipse update web site (which is much (3-4
>> times) slower than downloading the with your web browser),
>> and putting it the eclipse features directory.  When you define a
>> server, you choose an empty directory, and click the "Download and
>> Install" button.  The server .zip previously downloaded is then
>> expanded to this directory.  The second way this can work is to skip
>> the installation of server feature altogether, and simply define a new
>> server, choose an empty directory, and click the "Download and
>> Install" button.  The same file is downloaded to the
>> eclipse features directory, then expanded to the target directory.
>> There are development costs and issues associated with maintaining and
>> continuing to provide this support.  Keeping the license and notice
>> files in-sync is one issue.  The "Download and Install" function has
>> consumed a large number of development hours.  There is a problem with
>> uninstalling them in Ganymede.  (See (GERONIMODEVTOOLS-467) Can't
>> uninstall runtime after installing it via eclipse update manager in
>> Ganymede for details.)  Also with Ganymede, there is a new version of
>> the eclipse update manager, p2.  It is supposed to be compatible with
>> the old one.  It handles the server adapters OK, but not the server
>> features.  It reverts to the older update manager to install them.  (I
>> think this is why they cannot be uninstalled.)
>> I think most users will download the server, install it and run it,
>> and especially customize it.  Then, I think they will use eclipse and
>> GEP to develop applications for their existing server.  I don't think
>> many users are using eclipse to download the server.
>> These servers have their WTP server adapters bundled with WTP:
>> Apache Tomcat
>> IBM WAS v6.0
>> JBoss
>> ObjectWeb JOnAS
>> Oracle OC4J
>> I think we should pursue getting GEP in that list.  When defining new
>> servers for these servers, only Apache Tomcat offers a "Download and
>> Install" button, and it is permanently grayed out.  Most of them
>> populate the app sever directory text box with /your_server_root/...,
>> indicating they expect you to install it outside of eclipse.
>> I think we can hide the server features, but still allow "Download and
>> Install" to work.  I would put the server features on some other site,
>> not the main one.  Then, users would not see it as an install option,
>> but the "Download and Install" button would still work, because it
>> would find the server on this other web site.
>> However, all things considered, maybe we should remove the server
>> features altogether.  We are so close to GEP 2.1.2 that we may want to
>> do this until after GEP 2.1.2.  For 2.1.2, we may want to hide the
>> server feature as described above.
>> Comments?
>> Ted Kirby

View raw message