geronimo-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Joe Bohn <>
Subject Re: Removing specific sample references on the Welcome Page?
Date Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:01:36 GMT
Tim McConnell wrote:
> Hi Joe, if I put my end-user hat on and I click on any sample/example 
> link on the Geronimo server's welcome page I would expect it to work out 
> of the box, or I'm not going to be overly impressed. So if I continue 
> this train of thought, it seems like any examples on this page should 
> actually be packaged-with, shipped-with, tested-with, and released-with, 
> the server. That way they would have to always work, or otherwise the 
> server couldn't be released. An explicit install action for these 
> examples probably is probably okay but to depend on an artifact that 
> must have been released to an external repository at another time isn't 
> okay, since again as an end-user I expect it to work out of the box, and 
> as you've just demonstrated they may not (for various reasons). So, why 
> not mitigate these problems and if the need to be installed, just 
> install them from say an "examples" subdirectory that is again packaged 
> with the server ?? No need for an internet connection, no dependency on 
> an external repo, etc...

I agree.  In fact, this is one of the reasons that I was in favor of 
moving the samples back into trunk svn ... but I was giving some ground 
up by stating that the didn't need to be packaged with the server ... 
concerned out image size and such.  However, I think you are correct 
that samples that are installed directly from the welcome app seem to 
imply that they are local and hence should be packaged with the server. 
  This is another reason why we should remove them from the welcome app 
if we don't plan to release and package them together.

> I know your probably don't want/need another alternative to your other 
> devlist thread, but maybe just for the sake of this email I demarcate 
> between examples and samples. Where "examples" ship with and are 
> packaged with the server, and can be executed directly from the "Welcome 
> page". It may be true that this class of examples are so-called simple 
> examples. But so what, they'll always work because they have to, there 
> would be no need for a separate release process for them, they could 
> grow them over time, and we could always be confident of the end-user 
> impression they'll convey...... And where "samples" are pretty much an 
> arduous subset of the samples we have today with all their incumbent 
> problems you've grown to love, and where we might only provide links 
> from the "Welcome Page" to a Geronimo URL which would then require an 
> internet connect, a separate release process, an external repo, etc....

I see where you are headed and I partially agree.  However, I see two 
1) Packaging examples is great for a development environment but not 
very optimal for a production server. Hence, if we grow the server size 
with packaged samples our production users would probably have to 
manually remove them or build their own server image.  While that might 
be a good way to encourage users to create custom server images I'm not 
sure it would be well received.  I think we have already received some 
grief for the welcome app itself (esp. since it uses the / context) and 
we direct users to remove it if necessary.
2) It's a rather fuzzy distinction between samples and examples.  I can 
see confusion from users on where to look for function x as well as from 
  Geronimo developers when wondering how to demonstrate some function. 
Is it an example or a sample?

I guess I'm still inclined to just remove the detailed entries and point 
the users to the wiki for information on samples and how to go about 
getting/installing/playing with them.

> Joe Bohn wrote:
>> The Geronimo welcome page (http://localhost:8080/) has long included 
>> links under a header of Geronimo Examples.
>> Under this header are the following 3 links:
>> - Servlet Examples
>> - JSP Examples
>> - LDAP Demo
>> - Additional Samples
>> I'd like to remove the first 3 links and rename the last link to 
>> simply "Samples" for trunk and branches/2.1 (prior to the 2.1.2 
>> release).  The last link takes you to a page  on our wiki that lists 
>> doc links for the samples per release ... I think that is more 
>> appropriate.
>> The first 3 links present another html page from the local server that 
>> contains text similar to this:
>> This sample has not been installed yet. If this server can connect to 
>> the internet, click here to install and connect to the sample 
>> application. It will take a few minutes to download and install the 
>> sample and then load it.
>> Those 3 links present some problems (and currently don't work for 2.1 
>> or 2.1.1 that have already been released).
>> - Clicking the install link attempts to connect to a repository and 
>> initiate a install of the specified sample.
>> - The repository is not always as desired.  For me it defaults to my 
>> local maven2 repo.
>> - The current component IDs are incorrect.  That's easy enough to 
>> change but I suspect there would still be issues (see the next points).
>> - Even if it linked to the correct repo for the release, there would 
>> still be a period of time after a server release when the samples are 
>> not yet available in the repository.
>> - The LDAP demo requires some additional setup now because we no 
>> longer include Directory in the initial server image ... hence this 
>> gives a false impression that simply clicking on the link will make 
>> the example functional.
>> Given these problem and the fact that is has been broken for several 
>> releases. I'd like to remove the specific server example links from 
>> the welcome page before we ship 2.1.2.  Any objections?
>> Joe

View raw message