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Message-ID: <19e0530f0609021219r7738772n80ed1c60abe3f75@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 15:19:26 -0400
From: "Davanum Srinivas" <davanum@gmail.com>
Reply-To: dims@apache.org
To: dev@geronimo.apache.org, jgenender@apache.org
Subject: Re: Geronimo Plugins project (Re: Where to develop plugins
In-Reply-To: <44F9CF80.6050607@apache.org>
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References: <19e0530f0609020336l3d4914edseb04933781a05995@mail.gmail.com>
	 <44F99A18.3090708@hogstrom.org>
	 <19e0530f0609020835p69b2f96t45dbc2115ca4971c@mail.gmail.com>
	 <44F9BD12.1070403@hogstrom.org>
	 <74e15baa0609021122k325633e6n61a1afdc103672a6@mail.gmail.com>
	 <44F9CF80.6050607@apache.org>

Aaron,

Last we checked, Matt, Hernan and I showed interest as well [1]. We
are looking for a leader to spearhead this effort. Let me be blunt, at
this point we are looking upto you to lead the way as the person with
the most knowledge/experience. Sorry to put you on the spot!.

thanks,
-- dims

[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=geronimo-dev&m=115048484932019&w=2

On 9/2/06, Jeff Genender <jgenender@apache.org> wrote:
> I would be happy to help, not take a lead ;-) I have a lot on my plate
> right now.
>
> I would like to see all of our components as plugins (not just
> directory, samples, console ,etc).  I think once everything is a plugin,
> the real value of Geronimo will begin to become evident.
>
> Aaron Mulder wrote:
> > Well, are there any volunteers to set up the Geronimo plugins project
> > and migrate all the current ones (directory, examples, possibly
> > console, etc.) to that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >     Aaron
> >
> > On 9/2/06, Matt Hogstrom <matt@hogstrom.org> wrote:
> >> Totally agree...with your points.  I was commenting more on why we
> >> didn't have it yet.  I concur
> >> that The Geronimo Project should be hosting our own set of plugins.
> >> Esp. the Apache based ones like
> >> directory and samples.
> >>
> >> I hope I didn't go too far into the ditch :)
> >>
> >> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> >> > Matt,
> >> >
> >> > I guess, we should the leave the offer of a new Geronimo subproject
> >> > for plugins on the table. The bottom line is *IF* someone wants to
> >> > develop plugins here, then we can and should set it up at that time.
> >> > Until then it's status quo. It's not like we have not done this
> >> > plugins concept before. For example, see the httpd's list/site of
> >> > community maintained modules (all licenses) here:
> >> > http://modules.apache.org/
> >> >
> >> > We should do as much as possible for people who wish to engage and cut
> >> > our losses if people come up with lame reasons not to engage or don't
> >> > wish to work within the bounds of an ASF sponsored project.
> >> >
> >> > Aaron, or anyone else for that matter can work where they want. We
> >> > can't force anyone to work here. All we can do is thank them for the
> >> > work done here so far and wish them best to continue elsewhere.
> >> >
> >> > thanks,
> >> > dims
> >> >
> >> > On 9/2/06, Matt Hogstrom <matt@hogstrom.org> wrote:
> >> >> I think this is what most people want.  I can't speak for Aaron but I
> >> >> think he wants to build some
> >> >> plugins that includes LGPL code.  IIRC he felt that it was too much
> >> >> work for him to build and
> >> >> maintain the two different sites and specifically said he was going to
> >> >> do it elsewhere for the
> >> >> licensing issue.  No one else has stepped up in the community to put
> >> >> the alternate site together.
> >> >>
> >> >> I agree it is unfortunate and not good for the community but the
> >> >> community lacks the resources /
> >> >> interest to do both.
> >> >>
> >> >> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> >> >> > Just like we have a "Apache Geronimo Development Tools
> >> Subproject" why
> >> >> > can't we have a "Apache Geronimo Plugins Subproject"? and grant
> >> folks
> >> >> > working on plugins karma there if karma is the issue.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > My 2 cents...Forking community is not good. We should try to
> >> encourage
> >> >> > people to work here especially new folks. If i had not gotten the
> >> red
> >> >> > carpet from cocoon folks back in 2001, i'd never have made it as a
> >> >> > Apache committer. If they had told me to open a new sf.net project
> >> >> > with my addons that would have been the end of the road for me. I am
> >> >> > greatly indebted to folks like Stefano who gave me a jump start.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -- dims
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 9/1/06, David Blevins <david.blevins@visi.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Sep 1, 2006, at 8:27 AM, Jacek Laskowski wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Re: developers developing plugins - you're certainly right, we're
> >> >> not
> >> >> >> > developing one monolithic codebase with all the features one
> >> could
> >> >> >> > dream of. It's impossible and I understand why people could
> >> develop
> >> >> >> > their plugins outside. They simply don't have necessary karma to
> >> >> do it
> >> >> >> > here. That's a very important matter I've not thought of before.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > What I was not happy with was you as a Geronimo committer
> >> who's been
> >> >> >> > doing plugin development outside. Now, when I think about it a
> >> bit
> >> >> >> > more I think I get the gist of it - you couldn't work with your
> >> >> >> > buddies, actually, they couldn't work as easily as they can do
> >> >> outside
> >> >> >> > - the rest of the jpa plugin team don't have the karma to do it
> >> >> here.
> >> >> >> > Got it and have to think about it a little to let my mind settle.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> A major part of my moral compass on situations like this is, "what
> >> >> >> signal
> >> >> >> does this send to the aspiring <ProjectName> developers out there?"
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Imagine a hundred developers excited about the idea of developing
> >> >> >> plugins
> >> >> >> for Geronimo.  How do my actions and attitudes in this situation
> >> >> affect
> >> >> >> them and their excitement and what does it tell them about how they
> >> >> >> might
> >> >> >> be perceived by me?  Am I ultimately bringing them closer or
> >> scaring
> >> >> >> them
> >> >> >> away?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The answers are of course harder.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> -David
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
>


-- 
Davanum Srinivas : http://www.wso2.net (Oxygen for Web Service Developers)