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From Jason Dillon <>
Subject Re: [SUMMARY] Proposed Geronimo Development Processes
Date Wed, 06 Sep 2006 23:27:17 GMT
Thanks Kevan for the summary, I think this really helps.

More comments below inline...

On Sep 6, 2006, at 1:34 PM, Kevan Miller wrote:
> 1. Relaxed RTC
> ...
> * 3 +1 votes from committers on the project (1 of these committers  
> needs to be a member of the PMC) with no outstanding -1 votes.

I don't think that we need a requirement of a PMC vote here.  The PMC  
can provide enough oversight w/o a required vote.  IMO, a vote is a  
vote is a vote... I don't put any weight over a committers vote to a  
PMC members vote.  I value them both equally.  Forcing a PMC vote  
here is artificial and promotes separatism rather than unity.

> 2. RTC with Lazy Consensus
> Geronimo follows a Review-Then-Commit model with Lazy consensus.  
> Patches for new function are provided by developers for review and  
> comment by their peers. Feedback is conducted through JIRA  
> comments. The goal of this interaction is to solicit suggestions  
> from the community and incorporate their feedback as appropriate. A  
> patch is accepted if:
> * 3 +1 votes from committers on the project with no outstanding -1  
> votes and no significant, ongoing discussion
> * 72 hours pass with no outstanding -1 votes and no significant,  
> ongoing discussion. A 24 hour warning should be sent to the dev list.

For the most part I like this model... but only for non-trivial  
changes, see below.

> 3. CTR with documentation guidelines
> Geronimo follows a Commit-Then-Review model. There should be an  
> emphasis of community communication. Community-based policing and  
> persuasion will be used to remedy any problem areas. Guidelines are  
> not strict dogma -- common sense should prevail. Community  
> communication is the key, not a process. General guidelines are:
> * Non-trivial changes (and certainly potentially controversial  
> changes) should be announced on the dev list. This announcement  
> should be well in advance of the change being committed. The  
> community should be given the opportunity to understand and discuss  
> the proposal.
> * Concurrent with the commit of a significant change, the committer  
> should document the change on the dev list. You should describe  
> what you are doing, describe why you are doing it, and provide an  
> overview of how you implemented it.

This feels a whole lot like common-sense for how to participate on an  
open-source project.  In most cases, I think this is also the best  
model to run under... though I do believe that RTC has some merit as  

If it was up to me (which it isn't, but here is my opinion anyways),  
I would use a hybrid model, which would default to CTR (with emphasis  
on common sense and communication) and for non-trivial or potentially  
controversial changes follow the RTC with Lazy Consensus as described  
in #2 (with the addition of inclusion of development branches or  
patches, depending on the complexity).  I actually think that this is  
common-sense too.

IMO... this is the best of both worlds, without being too overbearing  
on policy and process, leveraging the trust of the developers and  
fostering our community with sufficient oversight and freedom to  
allow real progress to be achieved.

  * * *

But Jason... how do I know what is non-trivial or controversial?

Well, if you have to ask this... either common sense has failed you  
( :-P ) or you should consider your changes to be non-trivial/ 
controversial and propose the change under RTC w/LC.

But Jason... what if someone commits something that I think should  
have been RTC w/LC?

Well, you communicate that to the group, explaining why you think the  
change was non-trivial/controversial and then we work together as a  
community to resolve the issue, potentially educating the developer  
if the change should have been RTC w/LC or educating why it was not  
and if needed backing out the change and re-proposing it via RTC w/ 
LC. This too feels like common sense.

But Jason... I think you are on crack... and I want to smoke some too!

Okay, you are on your own there... just make sure you clean your  
pipe, cause their ain't nuthing worse than a dirty ole crack pipe. :-P


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