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From "Hiram Chirino" <>
Subject Re: Need clarification on RTC... Yet again... was: [Proposal] Tracking the status of patches under RTC
Date Sun, 02 Jul 2006 12:47:11 GMT
Hi Jacek,

On 7/2/06, Jacek Laskowski <> wrote:
> On 7/2/06, Hiram Chirino <> wrote:
> > Whoa!
> >
> > I think we have been operation under a different assumption.  I know I
> > committed a patch when 1 got 3 committer +1s...  And not even 1 PMC
> member
> > looked at it.  And that took over a week to garner enough
> votes.  Imagine
> > how long it would take if we had to get 3 PMC +1!  I think we need to
> clear
> > this up ASAP!
> It's been cleared up for some time, imho. We can do two things to work
> it out in a gentle manner:
> 1/ Be more active and describe the change so that not only are
> developers encouraged to test it out or even PMCers. Why is it that
> only committers and PMCers vote? Is the description of the change not
> easy to understand enough? I wonder what makes them unattractive for
> lurkers?

If you want to review the mail thread that I started a while back, you'll
see that it was a simple migration of code from ActiveMQ to Geronimo.  I
posted multiple times to garner support.  Sadly, I think RTC is shifting
Geronimo from being a meritocracy to being a bureaucracy.  And only things
get done if you have friends in the PMC.  I've seen several folks say RTC
"Has been as success", and while yes, it has increased communicatio, If you
look back and try to compare what's been committed to SVN against what has
passed in RTC with 3 PMC votes I'm sure you'll be hard pressed to find alot
of examples of "success".

2/ Be more active and gain a PMC nomination so the number of PMCers
> increases.
> They seem to be obvious things, but in RTC mode we operate nothing's
> as obvious as it was. We all learn RTC and with no other projects

Since I previously was on the PMC due to starting Geronimo and actively work
on it and getting it past the CTS testing, excuse me if I think I have all
ready have shown this project that I'm a responsible community member.
Unfortunately, I don't have 8 hours a day to devote to Geronimo anymore but
I don't think that should be held against any PMCer.

operating in RTC we're pioneers. With a limited bandwidth I've got I'm
> quite certain I'll work on patches that are easy to grasp and have
> extensive documentation behind them. Of course, the more talk about it
> in the dev mailing list the better as it will spur my interest in
> testing.

I know you would never think something like this, but I could see how
"spurring interest" could rapidly degenerate to hiring 3 PMC folks on
consulting time.

I think RTC would be fine IF current implementation were slightly tweaked to
only require: 3 1+ from committers saying, yeah I think that patch is a good
idea. Notice the requirement for testing the patch is gone.  The requirement
or PMC member is gone.  This would still generate all the discussion that we
are seeing on the lists, but now you at least have CHANCE of moving forward
with a change.

> --
> Jacek Laskowski



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