Mailing-List: contact dev-help@geronimo.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: dev@geronimo.apache.org
Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: domain of jason.dillon@gmail.com
 designates 64.233.162.193 as permitted sender)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:content-type:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:to:x-mailer:from:sender;
        b=RMxMaIarcXDiWp0AiyHTJakx3YnHLg4J5HvUpfTwlrdQEPzH39i8pLLa2OVwurOkh4vdNPD99w/YhOIC73vOFqDk07aD20U0yrONi8TrOfyejoC92a6/D3qSbQ8WcYEgv7d6+De6sLFG0XLsQKZwjerZnWSxkYSiIE2d0r2UGd4=
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2)
In-Reply-To: <1b5bfeb50606291407u23619f94rf02503ac6921fb85@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9B4CE7AF-2115-44AE-A694-E4A2A451EA79@apache.org>
 <44A2C7EA.7090406@gmail.com> <DF90C5EA-5BD4-4AD1-8247-6E6AF311F451@yahoo.com>
 <44A39567.4010704@hogstrom.org>
 <1b5bfeb50606290512k3e6c2157g3a05ceae63964a24@mail.gmail.com>
 <7567D6BD-6071-47DB-B83C-F8BBD56EEACF@planet57.com>
 <1b5bfeb50606291407u23619f94rf02503ac6921fb85@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <0359EF92-658D-47BE-880C-170050F8AD45@planet57.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [RTC] Clarification please from the PMC
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:57:51 -0700
To: dev@geronimo.apache.org
From: Jason Dillon <jason@planet57.com>
Sender: Jason Dillon <jason.dillon@gmail.com>

> I second your opinions, but that's how we operate and I can't do much
> regarding this matter other than to spare some time and vote at least.
> I think I'm not alone thinking that RTC is very painful, but some see
> it as a remedy of our troublesome happenings in the past. We'll see
> how it work out. The only thing I can do is to do my best to speed it
> up a bit and be more active in RTCs (given my manager doesn't get me
> swamped with other daily tasks that took me away for the past weeks).
> Not mentioning there're lots of bugs reported.

I think that if the Apache Geronimo community is actually self- 
governing as I believed it was, then there is something that can be  
done about this.

You are definitely not alone in thinking that RTC is painful (and non- 
functional I would like to add).


>> I'm confused now... how can one send a RTC w/o having a patch or
>> patches for others to review?
>
> Yes, you might've been confused as it's Matt's statement nor mine and
> thus the origin of your confusion, isn't it?

Honestly... I don't know... but I am confused ;-)


> I have never been as active in open source projects (Apache Geronimo
> and OpenEJB in particular) as I should've been. I haven't been able to
> manage my daily workload wisely and  spare more time to work on these
> OSSes at nights. At this point I'm completely overwhelmed with other
> stuff meaning I don't have as much time as is required from me to
> contribute.

It happens... which is why we have a community of developers to help  
pick up the slack.  Unfortunately some decisions have been made which  
limit the abilities of the bulk of the community and force the  
minorities to play a much bigger part, which unfortunately most have  
not stepped up to do.


> I see it as a threat to me being a PMC member. Do you
> think I should step down having failed so often?

Not at all.  I don't believe that you should step down at all.  You  
are one of the few PMC folks that is actually trying to keep up with  
the RTC and I certainly don't want to see those numbers reduced.

As I mentioned before, I was not aiming my comments at anyone in  
particular.  I have just been quietly ignoring the situation for  
sometime, and feel that I can not do that anymore... it is not in my  
nature.


> I remember having discussion about a distinction between a  
> committer and PMC member. Some believed there's none.

I'm not sure that there is (or should be) much difference.


> It's not my decision to activate RTC, which as far as I understand has
> never proven itself to be successful, but that's reality we need to  
> live in.

If our community is self-governing and the bulk of the community is  
in opposition to this rule, why then does that community need to live  
with it?

BTW, that is my opinion... I have not performed any poll to see which  
parts of our community actually is in favor of RTC.  I would suggest  
that most folks agree that improved and more frequent communication  
is desired... but I also suggest that RTC in its current incarnation  
is NOT the best way to achieve those goals.


> I believe, though, that it won't kill the project, but strengthen.

That all depends on how long it goes not for...

IMO, the longer it does, the more chances are that the end-result  
will be a more and more defunct community.

  * * *

Thanks for taking the time to respond.  I apologize if my comments  
stir your frustration... but I felt and fell like I have to say  
something, to play my part in this community.

--jason