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From "Bruce Snyder" <>
Subject Re: Frustrations of a Release Manager
Date Wed, 14 Jun 2006 23:48:39 GMT
On 6/14/06, John Sisson <> wrote:
> Hiram, I care if a private or commercial entity has control over the
> default option.  To give you and the list some insight into why I am
> concerned and care, here is an e-mail I sent in response to a private
> e-mail from Aaron after I started the "Questions about
>" site thread on the dev list.  I didn't get any
> response to my mail.  I think we need to discuss these concerns and how
> they could be addressed.
> Regards,
> John
> ---------------------------------------------
> Hi Aaron,
> I like the concept of the plugins site. I get concerned when important
> things like this aren't discussed openly before being implemented.
> I'm pretty sure you weren't planning on doing anything nasty, but I am
> more concerned (with my ASF hat on) with some of the issues that may be
> encountered in the future such as:
> - Arguments over why an external site was made the default instead of an
> ASF site, possibly giving the owners of the site a financial advantage
> (e.g. advertising on the site etc.)  I have no problems with you having
> your own plugins site, but if it is the default, it is though the ASF is
> endorsing it and giving you an advantage over anyone else who would like
> to do the same.
> - Concern whether in the long run the site can continue to afford the
> bandwidth, maintenance etc without charging for it
> - What is there to stop you getting nasty if things go sour?  What would
> the impact on Geronimo be if that happened considering you would have a
> reasonable amount of traffic/exposure going to your plugins site?
> In a perfect world I wouldn't have these concerns..
> One way some of these concerns could be overcome is to have non ASF code
> hosted in an "open" hosting environment where an individual/company does
> not hold the keys to the site.

As the person who originally formulated and then discussed this entire
idea with Aaron, I'll step up here and address these issues. I know
that Aaron has said this before, but I'll inject my knowledge.

When Aaron and I were first discussing the idea of hosting custom
configurations for Geronimo and developing a command line tool for
fetching them and making each Geronimo instance a server of it's
custom configs, the biggest dilemma I hit was how to offer hosting of
the configs in a manner that allowed software using any license to be
hosted. Apache won't allow any *GPL software, the Codehaus will allow
LGPL but not GPL (which I discovered by having a conversation with
Jason van Zyl), SourceForge allows any license but has experienced
some serious connectivity issues in the past that made me say no to
that idea right away. The conclusion that I drew was that there was no
easy answer outside of possibly hosting a brand new site somewhere. As
Aaron and I discussed this matter, I got really busy with work and
wasn't available as often. So Aaron began to flesh out the idea
further which is how he developed the notion of plugins instead of
custom configurations (which, if I might add, is a much better idea -
plugins, that is). This style of development has been done by all of
us in the past at one time or another, especially on this project.

I think I know Aaron well enough to know that he had the best of
intentions when creating the plugins site. In fact, he even said that
he had no issue with anyone else helping to administer the
site/machine/domain. Unfortunately nobody took him up on it. To get
the idea off the ground, someone had to purchase the domain name and
look into hosting and this is another area where Aaron stepped up. I'm
sure that he figured that the administrative aspects would be dealt
with once everyone saw the fruits of his labor and how beneficial this
could be for Geronimo.

perl -e 'print unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"

Apache Geronimo -
Apache ActiveMQ -
Apache ServiceMix -
Castor -

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