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From Jeff Genender <>
Subject Re: Frustrations of a Release Manager
Date Sat, 10 Jun 2006 03:55:17 GMT
Great email from Alan.  Alan, feel free to share these feelings with the
group.  I am inspired that you have similar thoughts as many of us (not
that I ever even questioned that ;-) ].



Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Alan,
> Forwarding to dev with your permission. Let's just bring all issues
> into the open and use this opportunity to vent, clear our heads and
> hopefully help put our best foot forward from now on.
> thanks,
> dims
> On 6/9/06, Alan D. Cabrera <> wrote:
>> This is a private email so that I have things clear in my head.  If you
>> think that it's useful to post to the dev group, that's cool.  You have
>> my permission to forward this email on to whomever you'd like.
>> Davanum Srinivas wrote, On 6/9/2006 3:03 PM:
>> > Bruce,
>> >
>> > If you are again asking for my input here it is....It's plain and
>> > simple. If there is a forum for discussion, it should be open as much
>> > as possible. If it's not possible because of either monetary or space
>> > constraints, then at least there should be some notification whereby
>> > one can give their input on topics at hand via email and/or IRC.
>> How was Aaron's email [1] not a notification?  Is there a better way to
>> provide notes on what one talked about at a conference?
>> >
>> > If i had known about significant discussions, i'd have brought up the
>> > topic of how/what my thoughts are on a JAX-WS implementation and the
>> > lack of a credible JAXB2 implementation. So the "Notes from JavaOne"
>> > [1] would have brought out the problems we will be facing implementing
>> > both JAX-WS and JAX-RPC (and using a single SAAJ impl) which could
>> > have been discussed at this forum. I really have to thank David who
>> > followed up by initiating discussion on axis-dev [2] after JavaOne.
>> You still have time to discuss.  What in [1] made you think that the
>> notes were carved in stone?
>> > Clearly there was a private list of people who were invited and an
>> > agenda was drawn up which was not shared with the whole dev team
>> > either privately or publicly. Typically in all Apache projects, we
>> > call it a F2F, pre announce it, discuss via email/wiki some of the
>> > items before hand and thrash out the rest in person.
>> Yep.  That was a not too good.  But people can still discuss things even
>> afterward, no?  People who have these private meetings run the risk of
>> having to discuss the round if issues a second time if they are not
>> inclusive.
>> >
>> > All it would have taken is *ONE* lousy email asking for input on items
>> > to be discussed either publicly or privately to all committers. Hiding
>> > behind facade's like "oh, it was a vendor meeting" or "meeting
>> > friends" or "We just left out just one person" or "Oh, There was a
>> > BOF" or a thousand other excuses don't count.
>> I think that what you see are individuals' interpretation of what the
>> get-together was for themselves.  If everyone had the *exact* same story
>> line then, that would have been truly suspicious.
>> I gotta say.  I'm kinda scratching my head about this. I was at the
>> meeting for the last few minutes but was an active participant in its
>> formation and I think that it was handled "ok", not great, but "ok".
>> Nothing was decided and things were reported back to the group.
>> Now, compare this to the where actual code started going in
>> and I got grief from fellow PMCers for even pointing it out.  I learned
>> that this came about from a discussion at TSS and it was never
>> publically reported to anyone.  This is what everyone should be craping
>> their pants about.
>> Bringing the two, to be sure there are others, together points out that
>> Geronimo is in serious trouble.  Pointing out that single J1 meeting
>> makes it seem kinda "shrill".
>> Thoughts?
>> > All you need to think
>> > about is whether you are being fair to everyone who is engaged in the
>> > project or not. By "bring the community together", hope you don't mean
>> > that we just go back to our merry ways and not learn a lesson or two
>> > from the strong actions by the pmc chair.
>> >
>> > Guys, there is something wrong we are doing. Let's fix it!!!!!!!!
>> +1
>> >
>> > [1]
>> > [2]
>> I am not disagreeing that Geronimo is in serious trouble.  I totally
>> agree with you.
>> Regards,
>> Alan

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