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From "Jacek Laskowski" <>
Subject Re: [RTC] Clarification please from the PMC
Date Thu, 29 Jun 2006 21:07:56 GMT
On 6/29/06, Jason Dillon <> wrote:
> NOTE: My comments below are not directed towards anyone in
> particular... mostly this just expresses my frustration with some of
> the more harmful politics that Apache Geronimo has picked up over the
> past few months...

I second your opinions, but that's how we operate and I can't do much
regarding this matter other than to spare some time and vote at least.
I think I'm not alone thinking that RTC is very painful, but some see
it as a remedy of our troublesome happenings in the past. We'll see
how it work out. The only thing I can do is to do my best to speed it
up a bit and be more active in RTCs (given my manager doesn't get me
swamped with other daily tasks that took me away for the past weeks).
Not mentioning there're lots of bugs reported.

> >> It would seem to me that the process for RTC would be to send an
> >> RTC about the Maven 1 -> 2
> >> conversion with some preliminary ideas.
> I'm confused now... how can one send a RTC w/o having a patch or
> patches for others to review?

Yes, you might've been confused as it's Matt's statement nor mine and
thus the origin of your confusion, isn't it?

> RTC is crippling Apache Geronimo's ability to become a vibrant player
> in the app-server space.  RTC has made us a Red Tape Community, where
> it takes weeks to get trivial changes implemented.
> The problem is made worse by the fact that most of the PMC members
> who we are supposed to coax into following RTC and voting in the
> changes are simply not available.  Not all of them mind you, but out
> of 10 PMC members I can only think of a few who have had time or
> desire to participate in the RTC and actually give their binding
> votes.  IMO the only way that RTC could possibly with is if the PMC
> members drop anything else they are working on and devote their time
> to applying patches, building and testing... BUT, I don't see that
> happening.  The people who are actually doing the work are for the
> most part not PMC members.  The people who are actually applying
> these patches are not PMC members.  Lucky enough though, I think that
> there are at least 3 PMC members who are being active, so there is a
> shot for us to get work done... its just going to be really slow
> moving.  At this rate, maybe we will have EJB3 support out by the
> time that EJB4 is dominant... or get out build working on m2 by the
> time m3 is out...

I have never been as active in open source projects (Apache Geronimo
and OpenEJB in particular) as I should've been. I haven't been able to
manage my daily workload wisely and  spare more time to work on these
OSSes at nights. At this point I'm completely overwhelmed with other
stuff meaning I don't have as much time as is required from me to
contribute. I see it as a threat to me being a PMC member. Do you
think I should step down having failed so often? I think it wouldn't
be forgiven at this point. I remember having discussion about a
distinction between a committer and PMC member. Some believed there's
none. Would you believe what might've happened once we introduced it.

When I made it to TSSJS in Barcelona, I spoke about it with others
(Dave, Matt, Aaron, James). Now, with a very few PMC members it's more
complicated to keep the pace as well as be forced to be more active in
Geronimo development when my time constraints have not changed. I'm
really, really frustrated (and even though you didn't mean to direct
your comments to anyone they're doing their job very well - many
thanks! ;-))

It's not my decision to activate RTC, which as far as I understand has
never proven itself to be successful, but that's reality we need to
live in. I believe, though, that it won't kill the project, but

On to my responsibilities as a

> --jason


Jacek Laskowski

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