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From "Jacek Laskowski" <>
Subject Re: [RTC] Clarification please from the PMC
Date Thu, 29 Jun 2006 12:12:06 GMT
On 6/29/06, Matt Hogstrom <> wrote:
> There is a lot of work going on to migrate from Maven 1 to Maven 2 in our build.  A question
came up
> as to whether or not we needed [RTC] for that activity.  Please read an excerpt from
David's e-mail
> on the topic...
> David Jencks wrote:
> > AFAIK no one is planning to try to get 1.1 to build with m2.  I
> > certainly don't feel like I have time to deal with the RTC process for
> > something that requires zillions of trivial changes to get to work.

I was not happy to have read so and if Dave loses his pasion to do the
work how else will do it? That's true and that needs to be changed. As
a PMC member I don't think it's that bad. We're improving and the
number of emails recently dramatically increased that surely impact
how people follow what's being done in Geronimo. Although RTC has
slowed down development a bit (or even more), it will pay off very
soon. We need to be very patient until more committers become PMC
members and their votes are binding. Painful, but in the end it might
boost development significantly.

AFAIUI, the whole point of RTC is to ensure communication through
dev/user mailing lists rather than in closed circles.

> It would seem to me that the process for RTC would be to send an RTC about the Maven
1 -> 2
> conversion with some preliminary ideas.


> [RTC] M1 - M2 converstion e-mail sent to dev
> Developers review the "plan" (as not all changes are known) and they reach consensus
about the
> significant change.  They get they're +1s from the group and begin their work.


> They continue their work posting status e-mails to the group but are not required to
get 3 +1s on
> every change but only changes where it would warrant some input (like changing directory
> etc.)   Even these I see as informative and normal communication and not an [RTC] thread.

Since people are all engaged in the process or are at least interested
in following it, why would that be hard to reach 3 +1s? I don't see
it. Are you saying that once the plan is approved (with 3 binding
votes) the following steps wouldn't be as much important and wouldn't
get their 3 +1s? I think I'm mistaken and didn't get the point of your

> I believe the goal of RTC is to improve communication which in many instances it has.
 In the spirit
> of RTC we could complete the Maven 1 -> 2 conversion without large numbers of RTCs

Right, but at the end of the day at least 3 people are fully
aware/familiar with how it really works, which is a good thing. I
think once the migration is over we will improve our communication
skills and RTC will become obsolete.

> Recently I think Jeff requested an RTC to update the committers page which I think falls
outside of
> the RTC requirement so based on these two examples I believe there is still come confusion.

My understanding is that only trunk needs RTC unless it's a bug fix.
Documentation changes don't need RTC - they do improve communication
about the product so no need to ask for 3 +1s.

> Matt


Jacek Laskowski

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