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Subject: Re: Incubations
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From: ian.d.stewart@jpmchase.com
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 15:50:22 -0500
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I personally didn't find anything sensational about lichtner's e-mail.  I
think he raises a valid point.  If the primary goal of Apache Geronimo is
to develope a quality, open source J2EE offering as a means of advancing
the interests of the ASF (whatever those may be), as opposed to an end in
and of itself, this is something potential contributors have a right to
know.

Similiarly, if the primary criteria for graduation from incubation is
indoctrination into "The ASF Way", and not code or community maturity, this
is something that needs to be communicated.  If the reverse is the case,
this needs to be communicated as well.


Ian

It's better to be hated for who you are
than loved for who you are not

Ian D. Stewart
Appl Dev Analyst-Advisory, DCS Automation
JPMorganChase Global Technology Infrastructure
Phone: (614) 244-2564
Pager: (888) 260-0078


                      David Blevins                                                                                                    
                      <david.blevins@vi        To:       dev@geronimo.apache.org                                                       
                      si.com>                  cc:                                                                                     
                                               Subject:  Re: Incubations                                                               
                      03/17/2006 01:32                                                                                                 
                      PM                                                                                                               
                      Please respond to                                                                                                
                      dev                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                       

Seriously, people.  Let's refrain from sensational emails whose only
point is to make things worse.

We are all here cause we want to work together and make great
communities, software and a better ASF.

-David

On Mar 17, 2006, at 10:23 AM, lichtner wrote:

>
> I wanted to see what this incubation problem is all about, so I took a
> look at the web site http://incubator.apache.org/resolution.html .
>
> It says that the B.o.D. has determined that it's in "the best
> interests of
> the Foundation" to create this incubator PMC charged with "providing
> guidance", to help products engender "their own collaborative
> community",
> and "educating" new developers.
>
> So you do not want to get incubated by Apache unless:
>
> - You care deeply about the Apache Foundation.
> - You project needs "guidance."
> - You need your project to have a "community."
>
> Philosophy eventually rises up to the surface. This resolution may
> explain
> why we are seeing so many emails about ActiveMQ graduating etc.
>
> The Apache Foundation is generous to provide resources to open-source
> projects, but this is not an entirely selfless act. If your project
> consists of one person, it does not qualify as a good ASF project
> because
> it doesn't have a "community", for example. If your project doesn't
> believe in democracy then it's not a good ASF project.
>
> Personally, I would not get a project incubated to help ASF be all
> it can
> be. I don't necessarily care about ASF, I do care about the Apache
> httpd
> and the other projects which are hosted by ASF but which might as
> well be
> hosted somewhere else.
>
> I think that if Geronimo is at odds with ASF's idealistic, abstract
> motivations it should pack up its code and move somewhere else
> where it
> can focus on coding. If they are only staying for the free services
> then
> perhaps IBM can donate those.
>
> Not to mention that the project is so big it could have its own
> foundation ...
>