Mailing-List: contact dev-help@geronimo.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: dev@geronimo.apache.org
Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: domain of jason.dillon@gmail.com
 designates 64.233.166.183 as permitted sender)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
        s=beta; d=gmail.com;
        h=received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:content-type:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer:sender;
        b=lSia9d+FoxkVaoeEZ6k0HMWHhzv+dpiVaL8ypMCcBWpiq+/aLopZvUeHfGv53+b7xlAZrefKLy3q/yByFkxd/IMc/mW9VyYq0ZPdjSOo/DvruEOVqskODzlmKrih6Y8k0kMF+3YU+xNoKVwi2LBsn68/J2F8RRYI5NMS+GHoyBw=
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3)
In-Reply-To: <2945C3B1-5874-4524-AC6F-2C12F0186E45@visi.com>
References: <Pine.BSO.4.58.0603171304510.15967@ida.bway.net>
 <2945C3B1-5874-4524-AC6F-2C12F0186E45@visi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <DF00B186-1090-4471-898F-8E66C4C88E43@planet57.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Jason Dillon <jason@planet57.com>
Subject: Re: Incubations
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:01:49 -0800
To: dev@geronimo.apache.org
Sender: Jason Dillon <jason.dillon@gmail.com>

I agree.  While opinions are valuable, when they are collected in  
emails like this they become dangerous and harmful.

--jason


On Mar 17, 2006, at 10:32 AM, David Blevins wrote:

> Seriously, people.  Let's refrain from sensational emails whose  
> only point is to make things worse.
>
> We are all here cause we want to work together and make great  
> communities, software and a better ASF.
>
> -David
>
> On Mar 17, 2006, at 10:23 AM, lichtner wrote:
>
>>
>> I wanted to see what this incubation problem is all about, so I  
>> took a
>> look at the web site http://incubator.apache.org/resolution.html .
>>
>> It says that the B.o.D. has determined that it's in "the best  
>> interests of
>> the Foundation" to create this incubator PMC charged with "providing
>> guidance", to help products engender "their own collaborative  
>> community",
>> and "educating" new developers.
>>
>> So you do not want to get incubated by Apache unless:
>>
>> - You care deeply about the Apache Foundation.
>> - You project needs "guidance."
>> - You need your project to have a "community."
>>
>> Philosophy eventually rises up to the surface. This resolution may  
>> explain
>> why we are seeing so many emails about ActiveMQ graduating etc.
>>
>> The Apache Foundation is generous to provide resources to open-source
>> projects, but this is not an entirely selfless act. If your project
>> consists of one person, it does not qualify as a good ASF project  
>> because
>> it doesn't have a "community", for example. If your project doesn't
>> believe in democracy then it's not a good ASF project.
>>
>> Personally, I would not get a project incubated to help ASF be all  
>> it can
>> be. I don't necessarily care about ASF, I do care about the Apache  
>> httpd
>> and the other projects which are hosted by ASF but which might as  
>> well be
>> hosted somewhere else.
>>
>> I think that if Geronimo is at odds with ASF's idealistic, abstract
>> motivations it should pack up its code and move somewhere else  
>> where it
>> can focus on coding. If they are only staying for the free  
>> services then
>> perhaps IBM can donate those.
>>
>> Not to mention that the project is so big it could have its own
>> foundation ...
>>
>