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Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:39:00 -0500
From: Rodent of Unusual Size <Ken.Coar@Golux.Com>
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Organization: The Apache Software Foundation; Open Source Initiative
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To: dev@geronimo.apache.org
Subject: Re: Incubations
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ian.d.stewart@jpmchase.com wrote:
> I personally didn't find anything sensational about lichtner's 
> e-mail.  I think he raises a valid point.  If the primary goal of 
> Apache Geronimo is to develope a quality, open source J2EE offering 

Yes.

> as a means of advancing the interests of the ASF (whatever those may 
> be), as opposed to an end in and of itself

Qualified no.  Not advancing the interests of the ASF, but
certainly not harming them either.

> Similiarly, if the primary criteria for graduation from incubation is
> indoctrination into "The ASF Way", and not code or community 
> maturity, this is something that needs to be communicated.  If the 
> reverse is the case, this needs to be communicated as well.

'Indoctrinate' is one of those multi-valued words (compare
'sanction' as a verb with its use as a noun) that can lead to
all sorts of strife when misconstrued, so let's be clear
on how it's being used here to describe some of the Incubator's
actions.

- From http://tinyurl.com/kp3w8 (Merriam-Webster dictionary site):

> 1 : to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : TEACH

Yes.

> 2 : to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of
> view, or principle

No.

The incubator isn't about trying to teach anyone how to write
code, or to code in a particular way.  Off the top of my head,
it's about:

1. safeguarding legal rights and making sure people can legally
   do what they want to do with code; and
2. indoctrinating (first definition) newcomers to the ASF with a
   code of conduct, outlook, and procedural methods that will
   let people familiar with other ASF projects hit the ground
   running when they get involved with Geronimo, allow Geronimo
   participants to do likewise elsewhere at the ASF, and not
   reflect poorly on the ASF itself.

Playgrounds are a common analogy, so let's try that.  If the
ASF is a playground, then the incubator is the monitor that
makes sure newcomers play well with others.  No hogging the
toys, no bullying, no throwing things at people passing by,
no moping in the corner.  If someone new comes to the playground,
and only knows one kid already there, the latter isn't allowed
to *make* the newcomer play only with him.  The new kid is
introduced to the rest of the kids, and then things pretty
much allowed to take their course.

As I said, this is all off the top of my head, and the analogy
may be incomplete or flawed beyond belief. :-)  Assuming it
*is* a reasonably accurate analogy for the incubator's purposes,
does it seem reasonable or unreasonable?  And how much do actual
events and behaviours deviate from it?

All IMHO.
- --
#ken	P-)}

Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Ken.Coar.Org/
Author, developer, opinionist      http://Apache-Server.Com/

"Millennium hand and shrimp!"
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