Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-geronimo-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 34810 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2006 02:12:07 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 26 Feb 2006 02:12:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 8674 invoked by uid 500); 26 Feb 2006 02:12:05 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-geronimo-dev-archive@geronimo.apache.org Received: (qmail 8383 invoked by uid 500); 26 Feb 2006 02:12:03 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@geronimo.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk list-help: list-unsubscribe: List-Post: Reply-To: dev@geronimo.apache.org List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list dev@geronimo.apache.org Received: (qmail 8372 invoked by uid 99); 26 Feb 2006 02:12:03 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 25 Feb 2006 18:12:03 -0800 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: domain of bruce.snyder@gmail.com designates 64.233.184.197 as permitted sender) Received: from [64.233.184.197] (HELO wproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.184.197) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 25 Feb 2006 18:12:02 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i28so572879wra for ; Sat, 25 Feb 2006 18:11:42 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Y4mPgdyit9x1VDw+ozVm8umZBfp4RgtbjIRy4fCpLJFDnz9c7Xh6g+LY3HCLbJvwJomfO//3zGLA3SXBip4MiITclPwVdEDQMCg+q08T5c5E14pP1KJUowZK44VX7pYzunfQdypsYvb9WH1UcEhsppvHrjWaUmxk14mZNn5GJJg= Received: by 10.64.125.17 with SMTP id x17mr48539qbc; Sat, 25 Feb 2006 18:11:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.47.16 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Feb 2006 18:11:41 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <7b3355cb0602251811l3fe47b17l7b795cf1bf395a38@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:11:41 -0700 From: "Bruce Snyder" To: dev@geronimo.apache.org, jgenender@apache.org Subject: Re: Removing attributes and refs from the config.xml In-Reply-To: <4400E13A.8080008@apache.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline References: <43FEC91B.6020600@apache.org> <74e15baa0602241456r156ed67enb7e326c139736f83@mail.gmail.com> <43FFA0F0.9000403@apache.org> <74e15baa0602251206k51857664y67dd148e68eaccbc@mail.gmail.com> <4400E13A.8080008@apache.org> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N I'm gonna go out on a limb here and ask why we're trying to make all of this more difficult for users instead of easier? Requiring a user to: 1) gain knowledge of the plans used to create the CARs, and 2) to create a brand new XML file (config.xml) to define new functionality or override existing functionality seems ridiculous. The proposed solution seems to be treating the symptoms rather than the real disease. IMHO, CARs need to either be made more dynamic or need to be replaced with something more dynamic. The trouble I have with CARs is that changing them requires them to be fully rebuilt which requires the Geronimo source. Average users don't have the knowledge or time to deal with this so we offered the config.xml which we're finding doesn't really solve the whole problem either. If I had my druthers, I'd leave CARs the way they are and work to offer something more dynamic as a long-term solution. The idea I have is to use a standard XML dialect for configuration files - like XBean which currently requires Spring. I'm sure that this idea won't have many fans, but it's an easy way to reuse an existing solution to deliver an easier experience for Geronimo users which, IMO, should be our ultimate goal. Bruce -- perl -e 'print unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=3D6-E+G-N>61E