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From Bruce Snyder <>
Subject Re: Ode Proposal (Sybase BPEL engine donation))
Date Thu, 16 Feb 2006 00:28:58 GMT
On 2/15/06, Greg Stein <> wrote:

> A number of folks here in the Incubator believe it is best to
> establish a community with no prior ties, and have repeated that on a
> number of occasions (including Sanjiva's and Noel's comments today).
> The general belief is that this will create a better community around
> the ASF's BPEL work.

Greg, I'm trying to understand the statements above. The more I read
them the more it seems that the Incubator PMC can decide what's best
for a proposal at any given time including making decisions about the
oversight. Are there documents about this topic on the Incubator site
that I've missed? I truly want to understand this and I'd appreciate
any further explanation or identification of any documents that
clarifies this issue.

> Part of the problem that I'm seeing is you use of "we" in your
> message. Who is "we"? And that leads to, who is "not we"? Why is there
> a partition? I believe this is one of the primary issues that is being
> dealt with right now, Dain. You are dividing BPEL workers into a "we"
> and "others" camp.
> Or, let's just say that was a random term to refer to the Geronimo
> project and you're not really seeing two groups. i.e. not fair of me
> to assign that way of thinking to you. Okay. So moving on: why is it
> important for this to be Geronimo sponsored? Why? Seriously. WTF does
> it matter?
> We've already said the IP clearance paperwork is the same no matter
> what. Great. Get that done and start working. When BPEL is ready to
> graduate, then we look at where it goes. Quite possibly Geronimo. But
> what does it matter that Geronimo is the sponsor? Why are you so keyed
> in on that?
> I can clearly see benefits with "absence of ties". I don't see the
> benefit of Geronimo sponsoring that you're seeing. And without that
> understanding, then I get to make up crazy reasons :-P

And the statements above aren't helping me understand this any
further. Can you help clarify this for me please?

perl -e 'print unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*"

Apache Geronimo (

Castor (

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