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From Geir Magnusson Jr <g...@pobox.com>
Subject Re: Let's rewind!!! (Re: [VOTE] accept donation of a business process engine into the ServiceMix project)
Date Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:29:13 GMT
Why not just bring into Agila and work on it in there?

Bill Flood wrote:
> Dims,
> 
> We heard your plea and have moved the proposal through the incubator as you
> suggested.  At this point, we are looking for supporters.  From the energy
> you put behind your posting, we are all hoping you will also be committed to
> helping us drive this forward.
> 
> We are also reaching out to the Agila folks and anyone else who wishes to
> get involved.
> 
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OdeProposal
> 
> Best,
> 
> Bill
> 
> On 2/3/06, Davanum Srinivas < davanum@gmail.com> wrote:
>> *IF* that is the objective, then the correct way is to follow the
>> Apache Incubator process(es) draw up a proposal, name *ALL* the
>> committers in servicemix who are willing to contribute, add your own
>> team names, post the proposal to the general@incubator mailing list.
>> Ask for more people to join, Proactively invite other folks (from
>> Apache and outside Apache as well) to join, seek active support of
>> exising Apache folks who may be interested in joining a BPEL
>> implementation. For god's sake just check the list of people who wrote
>> the original BPEL spec and compare it to the people who work at Apache
>> on web services related stuff and u will see what i mean.
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On 2/3/06, Bill Flood < bill.f.flood@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The dependency on Axis should be removed.  It's the result of a couple
>> lines
>>> of dead code.  BPEL 2.0 is an objective.
>>>
>>> The discussion over where the contribution lands is one of the most
>>> important aspects of the process.  Too narrow a scope and the project
>> could
>>> fail to get critical mass, too wide and folks are worried about the
>> kitchen
>>> sink.  If we can find the right balance we will be well served.
>>>
>>> We are not hardwired to any one particular approach and welcome
>> involvement
>>> from all corners.  The ServiceMix approach has a few positives - by in
>> large
>>> they seem to like our contribution and they have critical mass.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/3/06, Davanum Srinivas < davanum@gmail.com > wrote:
>>>> I was determined to stay of this, but alas! i could resist asking
>> this:
>>>> Would you be ok to having a stand alone project with committers from
>>>> servicemix, your team, people from other backgrounds (could be
>>>> existing ws committers) working on this code base, bring it up to say
>>>> BPEL 2.0 from BPEL1.1, upgrade it to say Axis2 from Axis 1.3
>>>> etc.etc...OR are u insisting that this code has to go into servicemix
>>>> and nowhere else...
>>>>
>>>> If it is the latter, why? If it is the former, why is there so much
>>> resistance?
>>>> As they say, i'll take your answers off the air.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> dims
>>>>
>>>> On 2/3/06, Bill Flood < bill.f.flood@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Dims, I'll take Cory off the hook since he was acting in good faith
>> on
>>>>> behalf of Sybase :-).
>>>>>
>>>>> As we are learning, there are a variety of ways to work within the
>>> Apache
>>>>> process as long as the community is supportive.  From the Sybase
>>>>> perspective, we are interested in working with a vibrant community
>> in a
>>>>> meaningful way that balances the needs of the community with that of
>> our
>>>>> own.
>>>>>
>>>>> when we first started thinking about the open source path, we looked
>> at
>>>>> Agila and communicated with the developers.  While the Agila
>> developers
>>> were
>>>>> quite helpful, the project was not open to our contribution and our
>>>>> assessment was that their existing code line would take substantial
>> work
>>> to
>>>>> bring it up to where we thought we already were.
>>>>>
>>>>> When we looked at ServiceMix, we found a mature community that not
>> only
>>>>> appeared open to a contribution such as ours but one which would
>> help us
>>>>> establish a good affinity with the ESB.  The Sybase folks working on
>>> this
>>>>> code line will continue to vigorously support the orchestration
>>> component
>>>>> and provide help in adjacent areas related to SCA.
>>>>>
>>>>> At this point, we feel comfortable in our contribution to the
>> ServiceMix
>>>>> project based on the positive uptake.  Under the rules of
>> meritocracy,
>>> we
>>>>> will work to ensure that the interfaces remain clean and the build
>>> granular
>>>>> enough to be reused and hope to work with you in the future.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>  -------Original Message-------
>>>>>>  From: Davanum Srinivas < davanum@gmail.com >
>>>>>>  Subject: Re: Let's rewind!!! (Re: [VOTE] accept donation of a
>>> business
>>>>> process engine into the ServiceMix project)
>>>>>>  Sent: 02 Feb '06 21:12
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Cory,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Could you please get James' help and draft a complete proposal?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Please see
>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=incubator+proposal+site%3Awiki.apache.org&btnG=Search
>>>>>>  for a list of proposals, their format and their content.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Once the proposal is ready, please post it to general@incubator.
>>> Also,
>>>>>>  please take a peek at the documentation on the
>>>>>>  http://incubator.apache.org/ site especially w.r.t to the
>> incubation
>>>>>>  process, what to expect and steps involved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  thanks,
>>>>>>  dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  On 2/2/06, cory < cory.harper@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>  > Hi,
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > BPEL 1.1 is supported.  The code works with Axis 1.3.
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > Sybase wants this code to be successful within the community
>> and is
>>>>>>  > going to work to support it.
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > Cheers,
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > -cory
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>  > On 2/2/06, Davanum Srinivas < davanum@gmail.com > wrote:
>>>>>>  > > Folks,
>>>>>>  > >
>>>>>>  > > There is no proposal, there is just a zip, unless someone
is
>> a
>>>>>>  > > clairvoyant, we can't figure out things like. *PLEASE*
CC
>>>>>>  > > general@incubator.
>>>>>>  > >
>>>>>>  > > - Which specific version of the spec is implemented?
>>>>>>  > > - Where are the list of known issues?
>>>>>>  > > - Where is the TODO list?
>>>>>>  > > - Why is Axis version 1.2 RC1 (and not even Axis 1.2 final
>> even
>>> if we
>>>>>>  > > forget that the current version is Axis 1.3)
>>>>>>  > > - Is there any relation to workflow?
>>>>>>  > > - Is there no opportunity for interaction with our Existing
>>>>> incubation
>>>>>>  > > project Agila?
>>>>>>  > > - Are there people from sybase who will be working?
>>>>>>  > > - Geronimo is becoming an umbrella rapidly and now ServiceMix
>>> wants
>>>>> to
>>>>>>  > > be one too?
>>>>>>  > > - Why are people talking as though the code is FINAL
>>>>>>  > >   (Quoting greg - "there is no need to develope a community
>>> around
>>>>> this code")
>>>>>>  > >   (Quoting Rob - "If you've looked at the proposed donated
>> code,
>>> this
>>>>>>  > > BPEL engine is complete, I can't see any sense in combining
>> it
>>> with
>>>>>>  > > something else ?" )
>>>>>>  > > - Do *ANY* of the existing servicemix committers know
this
>> code
>>>>> inside out?
>>>>>>  > > - If people are not going to touch this contrib code with
a
>> barge
>>>>> pole
>>>>>>  > > then why should it be accepted?
>>>>>>  > >
>>>>>>  > > thanks,
>>>>>>  > > dims
>>>>>>  > >
>>>>>>  > > On 2/2/06, James Strachan < james.strachan@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>  > > > We have received the generous donation of a complete
and
>>> working
>>>>> BPE
>>>>>>  > > > engine to the ServiceMix project...
>>>>>>  > > >
>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/geronimo-servicemix-dev/
>>>>>>  > > > 200602.mbox/%
>>>>>>  > > >
>>> 3cf94cbdb00602011120t68cfb561necc044dbc488645a@mail.gmail.com %3e
>>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>>  > > > the contributor has offered to donate to Apache &
complete
>> the
>>>>>>  > > > necessary software grants & IP clearance and
to work with
>> us on
>>>>>>  > > > integrating it into ServiceMix.
>>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>>  > > > For those of you maybe not aware; ServiceMIx is an
ESB
>> project
>>>>>>  > > > defined around JBI (JSR 208) the JCP standard API
to
>>> integration
>>>>>>  > > > components along with being the standard container
model
>> for a
>>> BPE.
>>>>>>  > > > ServiceMix already has the JBI container and has
a suite of
>> JBI
>>>>>>  > > > integration components already for smart routing,
>>> transformation,
>>>>>>  > > > rules, scripting, auditing etc...
>>>>>>  > > >
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/servicemix/Components
>>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>>  > > > So it makes complete sense to add a BPE to that component
>>> suite.
>>>>> Note
>>>>>>  > > > that since ServiceMix already has integration components
to
>>> Apache
>>>>>>  > > > Axis and Apache Tuscany, the integration of the BPE
with
>>> ServiceMix
>>>>>>  > > > should benefit those projects too (with Apache Synapse
>> possibly
>>> too
>>>>>>  > > > via the Axis integration - though we need to work
on that
>> one a
>>>>> bit).
>>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>>  > > > Also having a BPE fully integrated into Geronimo
via the
>> JBI
>>>>>>  > > > container would mean that we could start to orchestrate
>> pretty
>>> much
>>>>>>  > > > everything in the Geronimo stack! I'm certainly very
>> excited by
>>>>> this
>>>>>>  > > > move...
>>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>>  > > > [ ] +1 accept the donation into the ServiceMix incubator
>>> project
>>>>>>  > > > [ ] 0  don't mind either way
>>>>>>  > > > [ ] -1 I object because: .......
>>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>>  > > > Here's my +1
>>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>>  > > > James
>>>>>>  > > > -------
>>>>>>  > > > http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>>  > > >
>>>>>>  > >
>>>>>>  > >
>>>>>>  > > --
>>>>>>  > > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
>>>>>>  > >
>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  --
>>>>>>  Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>> general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>> general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
>>
> 

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