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From "Rajith Attapattu" <>
Subject RE: Does there need to be a default web container?
Date Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:40:32 GMT
I feel this debate is like do you like Coke or Pepsi? 
People will be more biased about the web container they use most of the
time (forget about merits/demerits of each app)

I think it's kind of useless to be arguing about this since both tomcat
and jetty is available. So ppl will always choose to modify the config
to have the container they like most.

(This would have been an important debate, if we were going to include
only one (either tomcat or jetty), but since both are included it
doesn't really matter)

Instead we should use the time to put more documentation on how you can
change the web container. I think a lot of people will appreciate that.

Just my 2 cents


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Genender [] 
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: Does there need to be a default web container?

Thats a great idea...

Kinda like Google's "I'm feeling lucky" ;-)

Matt Hogstrom wrote:
> In-Reply-To: <>
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> I think the magic G-ball should be embedded in the installer and let
it make a 
> random choice for the user :)
> The answer is "It is decidedly so."
> Matt
> Jeff Genender wrote:
>> Then lets agree to disagree.  We should probably take this offline if
>> needs to be discussed further.  This is kind of off-topic.
>> Jeff
>> Aaron Mulder wrote:
>>> Sorry Jeff, I have to disagree.  If you asked me whether you should
>>> use Tomcat or Jetty, I really couldn't give you an informed answer. 
>>> About the best I could say is "they both work fine in Geronimo, they
>>> do a couple things like virtual hosting slightly differently, and
>>> Jetty team is actively involved in Geronimo whereas we pretty much
>>> built the Tomcat integration on our own."  Still, that doesn't give
>>> you much guidance (the last bit there is the only reason I
>>> would have any preference at all).  And I feel like I'm in the
>>> informed 1% of all possible Geronimo users.
>>> I don't think it's sensible to argue over what "average" people know
>>> or don't know, it's just my feeling that if I can't make a clear
>>> decision for obvious reasons, then I can't ask every user who ever
>>> installs the product to make that same decision.
>>> Thanks,
>>>     Aaron
>>> On 12/8/05, Jeff Genender <> wrote:
>>>> Erin Mulder wrote:
>>>>> Jeff Genender wrote:
>>>>>> So you think your average Geronimo user will have no idea what a
>>>>>> container is?
>>>>> It's possible.
>>>> I asked "average" user...not whether its possible.  The average
>>>> will probably be a developer...who has done some degree of
background on
>>>> the technologies.  I would hazard to guess there are few people who
>>>> BEA or Websphere and have absolutely no idea what a web container
>>>> The developer will likely know what it is.  I have a hard time with
>>>> equating someone's clickety-click Mom with our average user...its
>>>> ridicules, which was really what my previous response was directed 
>>>> towards.
>>>>> There are a lot of experienced J2EE developers out there who have
>>>>> ever used full commercial stacks.  Asking them to choose between
>>>>> web
>>>>> containers is like asking them to choose EJB, MQ and Web Service
>>>>> implementations.  They may pick Tomcat because they vaguely
>>>>> the name, but having to make that choice will add anxiety to their
>>>>> install experience.
>>>> I am sorry but I cannot agree here.  I cannot believe there are
>>>> "experienced" *J2EE* developers who have no idea what a web
>>>> is.  That is preposterous.  Are there some?  Sure - but I would say
>>>> few.  However, in servlet 101...of which many of these
>>>> users would go, surely a mention of a web container, what it is,
>>>> what they can use (including books, articles, internet), they
>>>> have a minimal understanding of web containers.
>>>>> Geronimo is also likely to become popular in academic settings
>>>>> classroom and self-study) where people will need to install the
>>>>> before they get around to learning what a web container is.
>>>> The academic component is such a small microcosm in the grand
scheme of
>>>> users, this not even a reason to think its has a major effect of
>>>> overall user-base.  We should push the direction of Geronimo
>>>> what the community wants.  If the community wants Jetty, give it to
>>>> them. If they want Tomcat, then let them have this.  Let the
>>>> decide.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Erin

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